Another A380 Woe?
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What definition are you using? Boeing and Airbus took orders for several hundreds of 787s, A350s, 747-8s, A320NEOs, 737MAXs, and A330NEOs while those aircraft were still in development and well before those aircraft entered production, just like the enhanced A380. Every one of those programs (except the 747-8) required the engine manufacturers to make huge investments in new/enhanced engines. What makes the A380 different is that Airbus is unable to get enough orders for the enhanced A380 to get the engine manufacturers to agree to invest in the engine improvements needed to make the enhanced version possible. And now that one engine manufacturer has publicly stated they flat out won't invest and the other has said they are very unlikely to make the needed investments, Airbus is having even greater difficulty selling the airplane. In other words, they're now caught in a catch 22 that will be difficult to break out of. Will they be able to get Emirates to accept the standard A380 instead? Maybe. Maybe not. But one reason Emirates insisted on the enhanced version was to make sure the A380 had a future. An airplane with no upgrade path is a poor long term investment. Emirates may have to gradually change their business model/route planning to account for the eventual demise of the A380.
So you think Emirates will only sign their next batch order if some “A380plus” should become available for them right now?
AFAIK there are no "official" details on the specifics of said order. Happy to be disproved.
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The A380 is an ugly elephant of a plane, and I wouldn't underestimate the effect this has on its sales. For investors, airlines, countries, and passengers, travel is not just about money and statistics .... you are supposed to be setting sail on a voyage ....
Europeans have become very mental of late and lost their passion.
Europeans have become very mental of late and lost their passion.
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The A380 is an ugly elephant of a plane, and I wouldn't underestimate the effect this has on its sales. For investors, airlines, countries, and passengers, travel is not just about money and statistics .... you are supposed to be setting sail on a voyage ....
Europeans have become very mental of late and lost their passion.
Europeans have become very mental of late and lost their passion.
The A380 is an ugly elephant of a plane, and I wouldn't underestimate the effect this has on its sales. For investors, airlines, countries, and passengers, travel is not just about money and statistics .... you are supposed to be setting sail on a voyage ....
Europeans have become very mental of late and lost their passion.
Europeans have become very mental of late and lost their passion.
Could the upgraded engine be used in other aircraft to provide additional sales?
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This is a good article from earlier this month (apologies if it's been previously posted). The article indicates that Emirates is requiring RR to meet the standards that were promised when they switched from EA to RR, so really more about fixing the existing product vs an upgrade.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...engine-impasse
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...engine-impasse
As far as being able to use the updated engine on other aircraft, there are two problems with that. First off, both the GP7000 and the Trent 900 were pretty much point designs for the A380 and are not really optimum for any of the big twins. Second, the engine designs are relatively old - the 737 (MAX), 747 (-8), 777 (X), 787, A320 (NEO), A330 (NEO), and A350 already have newer, more efficient engines available. In fact, of the currently produced large commercial airliners, the only one with engines older than the A380 is the 767 - and both the GP and Trent are too big to be suitable for the 767.
But there's no fundamental reason why an engine, or at least an engine family, can't be targeted at both big twins and 4-holers - the PW4000 and CF6 have done pretty well in both markets, for example, even arguably the GEnx.
The various members of the Trent series, on the other hand, are more akin to distant cousins than siblings.
So have they finally ordered any engines for their "firm" A380s?
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Could the upgraded engine be used in other aircraft to provide additional sales?
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No. That's the problem. There are no engines available that fit their requirements, and it appears increasingly likely there won't ever be. So they either convert the order to the classic A380 or cancel the order and buy a different aircraft. Since Airbus was not able to deliver the promised aircraft, cancelling the order will not entail any penalties. Emirates previously cancelled their order for A350 without penalty when that aircraft failed to meet their performance promises, so this is not something new for them.
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AW&ST: You would like Airbus to reengine the A380. How would that work? Clark: Engine technology is going through major changes. In the fullness of time, the A380 needs to get the benefit of what is going on with midsize fans. The Leap is going to give us 18% [better fuel burn], so they say. To leave the A380 in a position where it isn't [getting more efficient] doesn't make sense. What I've said to Airbus is the A380 is a good airplane today, makes money and is popular. And the alliance engines are, by and large, OK. But the new generation of widebodies is changing the game. A lot has changed since the A380 came to market. If they crossed over some of the stuff we're seeing on the new generation of jets onto the A380, it would be a very much-improved airplane. What time frame are you talking about? 2020?
Of course, we'd like to see it sooner. I don't think it would be difficult for propulsion manufacturers—Rolls-Royce and General Electric—to do a scale-down of what's going to come out of the new jets at the back of this decade. That cannot be lost on them. If you can do it with the A320 or [Boeing] 737, you can to it to the A380. It could be a smaller version of the [GE] 9X, or a smaller version of the [Rolls-Royce] Trent that was proposed, but there has to be a 10% reduction in [specific fuel consumption] straight away in the next generation.
LINK
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The biggest limitations are hangar door size (which limits wing span) and hangar height. With the raked wing tips off the 747-8 has the same span as classic 747 and the vertical tail is essentially identical. The 747-8 is only about 8 feet longer than the 777-300 and that additional fuselage length is (generally) not an issue.