Another A380 Woe?
Most other hub airlines have a narrow body fleet, an area in which EK has been lacking. Possibly they have been doing so well with wide bodies they didn’t see any need. If Dubai starts getting bypassed they will need to compensate for this, whilst still a excellent connection point I feel that the mix will involve more second tier and few first tier cities. Instead of being an A380/B777 operator, EK could become a B777/B737 operator.
Can I mention the long haul cruise passenger traffic. EK now own a major travel agent and they funnel outward and inbound pax through DBX.These are Asian, SA, OZ and NZ pax. I have done Osaka DBX to LHR. Also sea (persons) are forced to use EK by there employers. The gradual return of the kangaroo route will avoid DBX.
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...the mix will involve more second tier and fewer first tier cities
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EK has a daily A380 service into Nice, which by all accounts is fairly well subscribed. (Even as prices are well above average for a similar route). EK is also doing A380 into Manchester and a number of other "second tier" cities around the world. It would therefore suggest to me that EK still has a dog in this race with the A380.
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EK has the ability to switch capacity around the network, high season on one route usually corresponds to low season on another and the aircraft type can be varied accordingly.
Manchester and Birmingham have populations in excess of 2.5 million depending on where you draw the boundaries, and a significant catchment area given the UK population density and income level.
The A380 works brilliantly for some airlines on some routes but doesn’t have the versatility of a big twin. When it was first introduced it was ahead of the B777 but still didn’t sell that well, now it is now being leapfrogged by the next generation of mega twins but isn’t selling in sufficient numbers to justify the investment required to offer a NG version. A catch 22 situation.
Airbus and Boeing have to commit most of their resources to their A320/B737 replacement programs. Narrow bodies account for 78% of the world airliner fleet and the new models have to be got right. Both manufacturers are starting at the same time with a clean sheet of paper. A difference of a few percentage points in a particular area can easily result in the loss or gain of hundreds of sales.
For large aircraft, the mega twin is more likely to be the future, something close to the A380s capacity but able to operate from a larger range of airports.
Emirates will still be operating in the future as Dubai’s position is unbeatable, but they are more likely to serve as a transit point between major to secondary and secondary to secondary cities rather than major to major. London to Sydney is likely to be direct where as Glasgow to Brisbane will require a connection.
Turkish Airlines fly to more destinations than any other as they have a narrow body fleet, beyond the A380 Emirates need a versatile mega twin for the hubs and a new generation narrow body for the secondary cities if they want to retain their lead.
Manchester and Birmingham have populations in excess of 2.5 million depending on where you draw the boundaries, and a significant catchment area given the UK population density and income level.
The A380 works brilliantly for some airlines on some routes but doesn’t have the versatility of a big twin. When it was first introduced it was ahead of the B777 but still didn’t sell that well, now it is now being leapfrogged by the next generation of mega twins but isn’t selling in sufficient numbers to justify the investment required to offer a NG version. A catch 22 situation.
Airbus and Boeing have to commit most of their resources to their A320/B737 replacement programs. Narrow bodies account for 78% of the world airliner fleet and the new models have to be got right. Both manufacturers are starting at the same time with a clean sheet of paper. A difference of a few percentage points in a particular area can easily result in the loss or gain of hundreds of sales.
For large aircraft, the mega twin is more likely to be the future, something close to the A380s capacity but able to operate from a larger range of airports.
Emirates will still be operating in the future as Dubai’s position is unbeatable, but they are more likely to serve as a transit point between major to secondary and secondary to secondary cities rather than major to major. London to Sydney is likely to be direct where as Glasgow to Brisbane will require a connection.
Turkish Airlines fly to more destinations than any other as they have a narrow body fleet, beyond the A380 Emirates need a versatile mega twin for the hubs and a new generation narrow body for the secondary cities if they want to retain their lead.
to get back to the a380 does anyone know the status of the "plus" ? Is the latest Emirates order for a plus or for the "classic" ? Is it actually for sale ?
Emirates may have expressed a desire/need for an "A380+", but as this point in time it does not exist, nor is there any certainty that it will ever. So any firm EK orders can only be for the current aircraft.
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The "A380plus" as presented at Paris did not move forward.
However the interior is changed to offer more seats where the front steps had been inside. There are only smaller stairs left because most passengers embark and disembark through "their" level. AFAIK ANA might take this new interior.
However the interior is changed to offer more seats where the front steps had been inside. There are only smaller stairs left because most passengers embark and disembark through "their" level. AFAIK ANA might take this new interior.
Last edited by Kerosene Kraut; 21st Oct 2018 at 19:53.
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This is the future in 30 years so will Dubai still be needed?
https://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sa...t-applications
London to Sydney direct in 4.5 hours cruise at marc 5.3 running on liquid hydrogen.
The future is always here today but generally takes 20 years to arrive.
https://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sa...t-applications
London to Sydney direct in 4.5 hours cruise at marc 5.3 running on liquid hydrogen.
The future is always here today but generally takes 20 years to arrive.
There is one big problem with hydrogen - energy density, although it is somewhat better pound for pound than conventional liquid fuels, liquid hydrogen is very light, it needs 5 times the volume, not only that it needs to be contained in very heavy cylinders at 5000psi and more. There is plenty of experience of supersonic and hypersonic flight and we know it can be achieved but at massive cost, the laws of physics are not going to change, hypersonic flight at safety standards and cost the paying public will accept is a pipe dream.
Hydrogen is a very elegant solution to energy in the future but as a transport fuel it has a lot of problems, it is far more efficient to to use the solar power to charge batteries rather than produce hydrogen, only to convert it back into electricity to
owner a vehicle. Or in the case of aviation convert it into a liquid fuel that can be contained at ambient temperature and pressure, it can be done but not efficiently .
Is there any news on EK's final engine selection for their next batch?
It had been announced this way but the deal must still be finally signed. The plan had been to do that by the end of october according to Sir Tim. I wondered if it has happened already? Has a slight bit of program significance if I might say so.
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All of the 50-odd A380s that EK have on order are RR powered. I can't see any more EA powered A380s ever being built.
Not just for Emirates, but for anybody. The last EA engined aircraft was built in 2017, and just a handful then, so the engines were likely built some time before. Does the production space and tooling for new EA engines even exist any more ?
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May I suggest you read the original post. The Emirates order is for the version with improved engines and other upgrades. But EA has already stated they won't invest in their engine under any circumstance and RR says they won't invest unless there are orders for significantly more than 36 shipsets. So Airbus is caught in a classic catch 22. They can't sell more A380s unless they get new engines, but they can't get new engines unless they sell more A380s. Hence the "A380 Woe" of the title.
May I suggest you read the original post. The Emirates order is for the version with improved engines and other upgrades. But EA has already stated they won't invest in their engine under any circumstance and RR says they won't invest unless there are orders for significantly more than 36 shipsets. So Airbus is caught in a classic catch 22. They can't sell more A380s unless they get new engines, but they can't get new engines unless they sell more A380s. Hence the "A380 Woe" of the title.