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Air Niugini Aircraft crash, Truk Lagoon

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Air Niugini Aircraft crash, Truk Lagoon

Old 3rd Oct 2018, 18:32
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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Thought I was about to solve the which runway mystery......Flightradar24 today shows the PX73 flight of 28 SEP from Pohnpei PTPN to Chuuk PTKK but tracking stops halfway. Perhaps someone else would like to try. FR24 shows 7 day history so tomorrow is last day.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 18:44
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by portmanteau View Post
Thought I was about to solve the which runway mystery......Flightradar24 today shows the PX73 flight of 28 SEP from Pohnpei PTPN to Chuuk PTKK but tracking stops halfway. Perhaps someone else would like to try. FR24 shows 7 day history so tomorrow is last day.
As discussed very early in the thread (post #16, in fact), there is no landing track for the flight on FR24.

Contrary to popular belief, FR24 doesn't have universal coverage, being dependent on having enthusiasts feeding ADS-B data from their vicinity. It appears there aren't any spotters on Weno.

Last edited by DaveReidUK; 3rd Oct 2018 at 20:15. Reason: Post located
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 21:52
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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DR Tks missed that.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 22:10
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RVF750 View Post
Don't need a postcard. The wheels leave the runway and the tail would scrape on all the furniture in the undershoot of 04. Lighting, rocks, you name it.
Maybe so. But you cannot be certain just yet.

But there’s been no mention of damage to airport or even of paint scrapes on the rocks.

To date all inferences have been drawn by one passenger stating that he saw the Truk Stop Hotel out of the port side of the aircraft. I also read another account (perhaps from that same pax) stating that it was not raining at the time.
Meanwhile, the airline still has not corrected its assertion that it landed short of the runway.

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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 22:18
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lucille View Post

Maybe so. But you cannot be certain just yet.

But there’s been no mention of damage to airport or even of paint scrapes on the rocks.

To date all inferences have been drawn by one passenger stating that he saw the Truk Stop Hotel out of the port side of the aircraft. I also read another account (perhaps from that same pax) stating that it was not raining at the time.
Meanwhile, the airline still has not corrected its assertion that it landed short of the runway.

Suggest you read my post #42 again. The Captain told them.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 22:27
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Today Podt Courier p.1 & p.3 quoting investigators that contractors & USN divers have recovered EGPWS and divers attempting “to search for the recorders in an area below the floor that is crushed and difficult to access”.

Also radio interview with Minister of Aviation on ABC at 0700 this morning... and ANG no comment to date
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 23:02
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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If you flew the approach to 22, then circled Nth (left downwind to 04). You might see the Truk Stop from the left side of the aircraft as you turned base for 04 ? I’m not sure what circumstances would lead to that choice though.

The METAR for a brief period around the time of arrival was very poor. However; there seems to be varying reports of the exact time that the aircraft ‘arrived’.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 23:06
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Magnetomick View Post
divers attempting “to search for the recorders in an area below the floor that is crushed and difficult to access"
The PNG press reports that the FDR has already been retrieved and is being sent to Port Moresby for downoading and analysis.

Passenger’s body found in cabin of crashed plane
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 23:09
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lucille View Post

Maybe so. But you cannot be certain just yet.

But there’s been no mention of damage to airport or even of paint scrapes on the rocks.

To date all inferences have been drawn by one passenger stating that he saw the Truk Stop Hotel out of the port side of the aircraft. I also read another account (perhaps from that same pax) stating that it was not raining at the time.
Meanwhile, the airline still has not corrected its assertion that it landed short of the runway.

Do you know where the passenger states he was on the port side of the aircraft? I listened to the audio linked in post #157 and at 1:02 he says after impact he "looked over" and saw water coming in the port side of the plane, which could imply he was looking over from the right side. Then at 1:28 he says he could see The Truk Stop dock out his window, but does not mention which side of the plane his window was on. Is there another interview out there that clarifies this detail?
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 23:12
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lucille View Post
To date all inferences have been drawn by one passenger stating that he saw the Truk Stop Hotel out of the port side of the aircraft.
No, if you re-read the thread there are a number of other reports which, while not conclusive, are more consistent with an overrun/overshoot than an underrun.
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 00:17
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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fdr, thanks for putting me straight, you'd think a FW (prop) carrier qualified guy would have thought of that.
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 05:33
  #192 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
fdr, thanks for putting me straight, you'd think a FW (prop) carrier qualified guy would have thought of that.



You asked re USAir 1549's impact. The NTSB report does not provide the DFDR readout however the following is the basic info:

last recorded speed at 12' 128kts. (not specified as CAS or GS, either could have been used in the reconstruction).
Time to stop from impact: 5 seconds approximately
Sink rate at touchdown 12.5 FPS (750FPM)
Certified ditching sink rate 3.5FPS (210FPM)
Wind was a crosswind (recorded at central park)

2.2g average deceleration gives 200 meter from impact to stop. Peak longitudinal g loads would occur at first contact and at the point the nose enters the water. vertical load was substantial at touchdown, the aircraft was in alpha protection, about 3 deg AOA less than stall AOA and being protected by the control laws.
Video from approximately normal to the flight path shows the aircraft comes to a halt in around 5 to 6 fuselage lengths, the fuse is 37.57m in length.

Sully's decision to go into the river was a good decision. The consequence of a failed attempt back to LGA or to try for TEB would have been devastating to the pax and to the city. The ATSB report shows that with the decision time needed for real crew to respond to a sudden emergency, LGA/TEB were not likely to be successful.

In Lion Air and PX, we have seen the results in inadvertent ditching (crashing into the water) with the gear down. In both cases, the outcome has been much better than would be expected from a gear down ditching.

In your turboprop, there is a near certainty that the props are going to take the gearbox and prop off the front of the engine unless feathered. If there is power on at impact, they are going to go walking, and a US type RH rotation prop is going to to have the left side props walk off towards the fuselage.
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 06:27
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Devil Mixing IFR and VFR

Whilst there is still some conjecture whether this was an overrun or undershoot, I feel compelled to comment on the content of several posts regarding “operating in this area” ,the necessity to mix IFR and VFR.
I too have had many years experience in this area, and I can confirm that there is a tendency for some crew to do this, and I would like to state that is PRECISELY the reason accidents happen.
Mixing IFR with VFR always increases risk unnecessarily. I can already hear the bold saying, “but if you don’t break the rules you won’t get in” .
My response, THAT IS WHAT AN ALTERNATE IS FOR.
Many years of C&T, several posts as CP, taught me when you do an instrument approach, if at the minima you look ahead and it is not BANK OF ENGLAND SAFE, go around. You will discover that there is never any obstacles above the minima to collide with.
let me be perfectly clear, you cannot hit anything doing a standard MAP.
Having said all that, I believe the accident is yet to be determined as an undershoot.
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 07:18
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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Folks,
Regardless of whether it is an undershoot or off the end, according to today's papers of other passengers accounts, somebody named Allan, surname unknown, apparently an Australian, should be lined up for a significant medal --- according to one eyewitness, he opened doors, got at least one liferaft out and inflated, and organised a substantial part of the evacuation -- in short one person changed chaos into a largely orderly and successful evacuation.
It would seem that many lifejackets were missing, a problem not unknown in this part of the world, including Australia --- there are lots of Qantas lifejackets on boats in Sydney harbour -- based on personal observation, and I doubt they were all time expired and sold legitimately.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 05:10
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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It would seem that many lifejackets were missing
I always check to make sure the lifejacket is there when I'm paxing, regardless of the airline. Found one missing on Air New Zealand once. Flight attendant was stunned when I asked her to get me one. I had to tell her to get one of the spares that they carry on board.
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 07:21
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Folks,
according to one eyewitness, he opened doors, got at least one liferaft out and inflated, and organised a substantial part of the evacuation -- in short one person changed chaos into a largely orderly and successful evacuation.
You can hear an Aussie voice giving some direction in the US Navy footage, thought it might have been an Aussie on exchange with them but if it was a passenger then he certainly seemed to be doing pretty well having just been in a crash.
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 18:27
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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04 or 22? To recap, PX 73 schedule is Dep PNI 0850 LT Arr TKK 0855 LT ( pni 1 hour ahead of tkk). Chock to chock time of 1 hour 5 minutes. On 28 Sep departure was delayed 31 minutes to 0921, thus ETA TKK was now 0926 as confirmed by Emilio,TKK Airport Mgr who also said it went into the lagoon at 0930 which sounds possible. The 0850 Metar (wind vrb 05 kts, if picked up by PX73 would have been halfway into the flight . Metars at 0940 and 0955 (wind 040 07 kts) were after the flight arrived/crashed. That wreckage visible in the USN video, engine cowling or some fairing from fuselage bottom?
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 20:18
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by portmanteau View Post
That wreckage visible in the USN video, engine cowling or some fairing from fuselage bottom?


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Old 6th Oct 2018, 02:46
  #199 (permalink)  
 
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Extract from an article in today’s Australian newspaper (which is paywalled). I’ll leave it to the experts to say whether this bloke’s describing an overrun or overshoot.

“As a regular traveller, Mr Milburn knew to expect a heavy landing when stopping over in Chuuk but it quickly became apparent this landing was heavier than usual. Mr Milburn said his initial thought was “damn it they’ve damaged the plane on landing and we won’t be going through to Port Moresby”.

“That was half a second before ‘this isn’t right, we’re not slowing down’,” the former Royal Australian Navy clearance diver said. “Then it was kind of all over the place and everyone made head contact with the seat in front.”

It was not until the plane came to a stop that cabin crew told passengers to brace. “I thought ‘we’re past that point’ and I instinctively stood up,” he said.

After helping nearby passengers don life jackets, Mr Milburn said he was concerned there had been no further announcements.

“There was no ‘stay calm, we’re going to get you out’,” he said.

“So I went down to the over wing exit and jumped out on the wing. There was a fantastic guy there, Rodney, a PNG fisherman, who’d got the liferaft down on to the wing.”

With no crew around to assist, the two men inflated the raft by which time some of the passengers had started coming through the exit door on to the wing.

A flotilla of local fishing boats helped ferry passengers back to shore and on to hospital.

“The bravery and the selflessness of the Chuukese people can’t be questioned. They were doing their absolute best,” he said.

With the 47 people on board believed to be out of the plane, Mr Milburn returned for a final check as US navy divers entered the cabin.

He found the rear of the plane filled with headhigh water and debris, and asked if one of the divers wearing a face mask could take a closer look.

“They decided it wasn’t really safe,” he said. “We didn’t know how much longer the plane was going to be floating and I think it would’ve been easy to get trapped.”
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Old 6th Oct 2018, 06:08
  #200 (permalink)  
 
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really impressed by these US Navy divers. it must be a difficult job that requires skill and courage.
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