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TAp 209 landing JFK

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TAp 209 landing JFK

Old 8th Aug 2018, 00:21
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TAp 209 landing JFK

TAP 209 just landed JFK in the middle of a severe thunderstorm.

METAR: KJFK 072353Z 32012G28KT 1/2SM R04R/1600VP6000FT +TSRA FG SCT009 OVC026CB 23/23 A2996 RMK AO2 WSHFT 2338 TWR VIS 1 LTG DSNT ALQDS CONS LTGICCCCG OHD TS OHD MOV E P0009 T02280228

A friend watched the landing and was incredulous they even tried the approach. Could not believe they did not sustain a lighting strike.
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Old 8th Aug 2018, 02:10
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Nothing unusual on the tapes. Delta 696 and Jet Blue 2092 landed in sequence ahead of TAP 209. RVR was reported 5500, wind 080/7 and Jet Blue reported a smooth ride all the way down. Sounds like routine ops to me. Was your friend surprised that Delta and Jet Blue tried the approach as well?

Here's the midnight Z JFK tower reel. TAP is cleared to land 22L about 9:00 into the audio:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kj...2018-0000Z.mp3
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Old 8th Aug 2018, 02:40
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Looks like they went around on the first attempt. Landed 20 minutes later. Maybe your friend saw the first approach that ended in a go around.


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Old 8th Aug 2018, 03:04
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Originally Posted by TriStar_drvr View Post
Looks like they went around on the first attempt. Landed 20 minutes later. Maybe your friend saw the first approach that ended in a go around.
That would make sense. On that approach AP 209 was given wind 34021G29 and RVR 1200 for 22L along with windshear alert: loss of 15 knots at the runway. EK205, an A380, landed immediately prior but Speedbird and Jet Blue went around before that.
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Old 8th Aug 2018, 15:05
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[QUOTE=TriStar_drvr;10217835]
Looks like they went around on the first attempt. Landed 20 minutes later. Maybe your friend saw the first approach that ended in a go around.

Not sure, he actually said shot the approach so perhaps it was a go around.

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Old 8th Aug 2018, 19:20
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EK205, an A380, landed immediately prior
On 22L, wet with tailwind?? A380? Wow!
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Old 8th Aug 2018, 19:45
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Originally Posted by golfyankeesierra View Post
On 22L, wet with tailwind?? A380? Wow!
EK 205 was given 32020G29 on the 8400 foot runway, they did take it to the end.
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Old 8th Aug 2018, 23:03
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This story sounds eerily familiar. It seems some pilots need to read the TSB report into Air France 358 at YYZ, or even the NTSB report into Delta 1141 at DFW.
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Old 9th Aug 2018, 00:00
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I wonder why they weren't landing 31L/R...
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Old 9th Aug 2018, 00:01
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Originally Posted by J.O. View Post
...even the NTSB report into Delta 1141 at DFW.
1141? Or 191? 1141 tried to takeoff with the slats & flaps retracted. 191 was the microburst on approach.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 07:05
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Originally Posted by golfyankeesierra View Post
On 22L, wet with tailwind?? A380? Wow!
You don't know your aeroplanes very well.......
The A380 has a similar approach speed to an A320 at MLW and it was probably chosen to roll to the end of 22 and use BTV rather than hammer the brakes for the outbound crew.
Given that wind, I would much rather have been in a 380 than anything else.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 11:11
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Originally Posted by Eau de Boeing View Post
Given that wind, I would much rather have been in a 380 than anything else.
And I would rather have another runway.

Have been to JFK a few times in both heavy Boeing and Airbus and 22L can be a bit of a trap sometimes. With southerly or westerly winds you get 22L, which is fine with the usual weather, but you also get it with gusty weather, tailwind, contaminated runway, windshear advisories and off the VORapproach. ATC doesn't know the difference for us. And sometimes it deteriorates in the time between checking in with approach and tower. Difficult to cancel an approach knowing you'll get "punished" for it with a delay but once in a while you find yourself thinking after the flight whether you should have continued it and 22L is often one of those..
And off course, I don't fly the 380..
But I do know the view approaching the end of 22L
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 13:50
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Originally Posted by gys
And off course, I don't fly the 380..
But I do know the view approaching the end of 22L
I do fly it, and into JFK, and onto 22L... Never felt like I needed a new pair of boxers in many different wind conditions! A typical approach speed at typical landing weight for us into JFK will be 135 to 140 knots and the stopping capability is, frankly, quite incredible...

I do agree with your point though about breaking off an approach if you feel that conditions have changed adversely. PIC is the ONLY one responsible if something nasty happens in these situations.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 17:36
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Originally Posted by Eau de Boeing View Post
You don't know your aeroplanes very well.......
The A380 has a similar approach speed to an A320 at MLW and it was probably chosen to roll to the end of 22 and use BTV rather than hammer the brakes for the outbound crew.
Given that wind, I would much rather have been in a 380 than anything else.
Hammer the brakes and impact the next crew in an A380? They doing quick turns in the A380 now? What are they down to? Sixty minutes? Ninety minutes?
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 19:22
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Never felt like I needed a new pair of boxers in many different wind conditions!
Me too, the whole trick of a flying career is to try to reach your retirement date without ever needing a change of boxers.

(Sorry, not ment to be bashing EK, my earlier comment was an honest first thought when reading about landing a heavy (or super) on 22L with gusty tailwind and wet runway)

Last edited by golfyankeesierra; 11th Aug 2018 at 20:03. Reason: apparently EK went around as well
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 19:28
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EK 205 Super also went missed on their first approach that evening. The ramp was closed for a while for lightning strikes.
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