FAA to be audited on cabin evacuation standards

[StAn gelo]

Originally Posted by Father Dick Byrne

For me it’s nothing to do with charges, it’s the totally unreasonable 30-45 minute wait in reclaim for the fekin things to turn up, if they ever do. As an industry we have comprehensively and institutionally forgotten to look after our passengers properly, and then we blame them for their perfectly understandable reaction to our incompetence..

Not to mention the way luggage is thrown around by the baggage handlers with very little regard for the contents.....i've seen rubbish being put into a skip with more manners.....

[J.O.]

Originally Posted by llondel

Perhaps what's needed is overhead bins with a central locking system so that they're locked from ten minutes before arrival (when all passengers should be seated anyway) until the seat-belt sign is switched off at the gate. That does then at least restrict people to taking whatever's under their seat and they may well have that in hand before it's their turn in the aisle.

Unfortunately, those locks would have to be held closed electrically. When the crew turned off aircraft power as part of the evacuation drill / checklist, those bins would automatically unlock.

[infrequentflyer789]

Originally Posted by Jason Middleton

This is less of a problem in the Middle East, where some pax are already standing in the aisle getting their hand carry down while the aircraft is still on final approach! Loud advice from cabin crew and other pax seems to have little effect.

Obviously it didn't help with Saudia163. Or maybe that's why they do it...

[llondel]

Originally Posted by J.O.

Unfortunately, those locks would have to be held closed electrically. When the crew turned off aircraft power as part of the evacuation drill / checklist, those bins would automatically unlock.

You could design them the other way, so electrical power was required to open them but otherwise they'd remain shut. I appreciate there are other issues with that approach.

[J.O.]

Originally Posted by llondel

You could design them the other way, so electrical power was required to open them but otherwise they'd remain shut. I appreciate there are other issues with that approach.

Chief among those concerns would be firefighting. A passenger’s phone catches fire and the fire compromises a circuit, removing power from the unlock switch and causing it to lock. There’s not a CAA on the planet who would agree to that one.

[double_barrel]

Originally Posted by J.O.

Chief among those concerns would be firefighting. A passenger’s phone catches fire and the fire compromises a circuit, removing power from the unlock switch and causing it to lock. There’s not a CAA on the planet who would agree to that one.

Anyway, the passengers would just stand around, fiddling with the catch and wondering why the locker would not open.

[RatherBeFlying]

Manual Bin Key Lock

1. Advise pax to take out items required during flight before stowing overhead. Inform pax passports and medications should always be kept on person.
2. FAs lock bins after safety briefing
3. During cruise FA can open individual bin if pax needs something, then relock it.
4. At arrival gate FAs unlock bins.

Abloy type cylinders would discourage brute force lock picking attempts

[Carbon Bootprint]

Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying

1. Advise pax to take out items required during flight before stowing overhead. Inform pax passports and medications should always be kept on person.
2. FAs lock bins after safety briefing
3. During cruise FA can open individual bin if pax needs something, then relock it.
4. At arrival gate FAs unlock bins.

Abloy type cylinders would discourage brute force lock picking attempts

Pretty reasonable stuff if the general lock/unlock can be accomplished remotely and not bin by bin. Otherwise, as for crew unlocking individual bins, it seems more feasible in Business class rather than Economy. I guess it'd be best to consult with the relevant Cabin Crew union for their thoughts on that.

[infrequentflyer789]

Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying

Inform pax passports and medications should always be kept on person.

That would be lovely, thanks, far more convenient.
Would you care to inform all the relevant ground authorities that the pax meds will be in a pill box (which I can fit on person, just) rather than in all its various oversized original packaging (which I can't).
If you don't mind, I won't hold my breath while we wait for the rules to change.

[Longtimer]

I think part of the problem is that the Seating Capacity for evacuation was at one time granted based on an actual demo, I was surprised to find that this is not the case for a lot of recent aircraft models.
FSIMS Document Viewer

[autoflight]

Overhead bins obviously should be locked at certain times.i.e when the seat belts sign is on. The logic for powered on or powered off or both and for emergency locking or unlocking could be determined by consultation with manufacturers aviation authorities, airlines & crew.

The current situation with no lock is clearly unsafe.,

[Kerosene Kraut]

If you fly through turbulence the signs go on and people store their stuff they have used until then in the bins. This is when you want to lock the bins? So everything has to fly around the cabin possibly hitting people?
I'd prefer some clearer worded safety briefing about strictly not taking anything with you during evacuation and remaining seated until released.

[infrequentflyer789]

Originally Posted by Kerosene Kraut

If you fly through turbulence the signs go on and people store their stuff they have used until then in the bins.

Never thought of that one - mostly because the last thing I'd plan to do in turbulence is undo the frickin seatbelt and stand up to put stuff back in the overheads.
Maybe your pax are different shape to me if they can put stuff back in the bins without undoing the seatbelt and becoming flying debris themselves.

[AVR4000]

Regarding locking the bins: Another option would be to lock them during take-off and landing, i.e. they are locked as long as the seat belt sign is on (and also to be kept locked during such conditions as an emergency landing). There's no reason to have them unlocked between the gate and FL100.

[J.O.]

Originally Posted by AVR4000

There's no reason to have them unlocked between the gate and FL100.

Tell that to the cabin crew who’ve had to deal with fires in an OHB.

[AVR4000]

Originally Posted by J.O.

Tell that to the cabin crew who’ve had to deal with fires in an OHB.

The cabin crew can unlock them at any time. Obviously.

Such a lock should be controlled from the C/A stations or from the galleys (where it is logical to get water to suppress a battery fire anyway).

This is *if* such a locking system is created in the first place. I am not convinced but *if* regulators decide to implement such a thing, the most logical option is to lock them during the taxi and take-off and during approach.

I must admit that I am not totally sure about passengers grabbing their carry-on *if* the cabin is filling with black smoke (Manchester 1985 type of event). The cases I know about (including the EK521) where they brought their bags didn't have THAT bad of a condition inside the cabin (they took their bags because they didn't "perceive" the situation as "that" threatening).

They didn't bring bags in Manchester since it was full panic in the cabin shortly after the aircraft came to a complete stop. Even the most ignorant of ignorant's would realize that black smoke filling the cabin means DANGER.

[llondel]

Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying

1. Advise pax to take out items required during flight before stowing overhead. Inform pax passports and medications should always be kept on person.
2. FAs lock bins after safety briefing
3. During cruise FA can open individual bin if pax needs something, then relock it.
4. At arrival gate FAs unlock bins.

Abloy type cylinders would discourage brute force lock picking attempts

Side effect of this - FA walks from the front of the aircraft to the back, unlocking bins on the way. This would mean there is no point in leaping out of your seat until the FA pas passed by because all you'd do is impede progress and be unable to get your bag out. Obviously doesn't apply to the subset of people who don't have a bag in the overhead bin.

[WHBM]

Regarding gabbling of safety briefings, a related increasing aspect is multi-lingual briefings where it is just not apparent where the speaker has changed languages, because they do each element in both languages, done without even pausing for breath, before moving on to the next element. You often miss out absorbing half or more of your "own" language before realising it's for you. Only a few carriers have realised the issue and, for example, done the two languages by speakers of different gender to make the changeover more obvious.

I do notice that briefings have become more wordy and tedious than before, commonly with trivia. Stupid attempts to "dumb down" the approach with silly videos (BA, I'm looking at you and that ridiculous rabbit) appear counter-productive, looking at how many pax lose interest along the way.

They didn't bring bags in Manchester since it was full panic in the cabin shortly after the aircraft came to a complete stop

Manchester was an outward IT flight in the days when hardly any such pax took significant bags into the cabin.

The key to the whole issue is stopping pax taking full size suitcases into the cabin with them. If they manage to get to the gate with them (I recall a Middle East "duty free" selling substantial boxed TV sets post-security) they should be taken into the hold.