BA F/O faces Jail for reporting to work drunk

[BusyB]

HH,

If you think tiredness is the same as fatigue you are obviously not qualified to make any comment.

[M.Mouse]

As you have detected BA’s disciplinary code with regard to alcohol doesn’t leave much of any wriggle room (rightly or wrongly)....yet funnily enough just a month ago BA were running an internal campaign labelled as a “Mental Awareness Week” to (rightly) encourage us all to be more understanding of certain health issues that can impact on any of us at anytime...yet even so it looks like some mental health problems are more acceptable than others.

I have been retired some years now so the policy may have changed but the last time I had any dealings with management when I had concerns that a captain had an alcohol problem I was told that BA helped those who came to the attention either by asking for help or being confronted directly if an individual had been brought to their attention. The help was in the form of the individual being sent to a clinic to dry out and retained their employment status. It was done in full co-operation with the CAA. There was no second chance. Similar help was offered to both flight and cabin crew.

I was also told that if it came to the attention of BA through cases such as Julian Monaghan's where the issue was splashed all over the press then dismissal was inevitable. The justification for that is arguable given that alcoholism is an illness.

It is beyond me personally how some people just cannot stay away from booze for a limited time like if they were addicts, especially in the face of risking the career or worse. He made it into BA, into a 777 flight deck, and then this.

If it was a case of just careless drinking I would agree. If it is alcoholism then the individual is indeed an 'addict'.

However, media treatment of the case with picturing the poor chap in handcuffs is just appalling.

Loss of career, time in jail and the utterly humiliating and disgraceful coverage from the Daily Mail and others.

The article refers to a 'pilot's dosshouse' when it is common knowledge within BA that there are several rooms available in well run, fully serviced houses set up for precisely the sort of need pilot's have, for a variety of reasons, for short term, comfortable and quiet rest facilities.

[Heathrow Harry]

Originally Posted by BusyB

HH,

If you think tiredness is the same as fatigue you are obviously not qualified to make any comment.

It's a matter of language TBH - my point was that there is no simple test for fatigue/tiredness compared to that for drinking. I've found the effects of fatigue vary not only between individuals but also can vary rapidly in any one person. Both the person involved and those around them have to be on constant watch to detect the first signs. In the last 12 months I've sent three guys home because IMHO (and it was my opinion that counted) they were showing signs of fatigue/tiredness - 2 were due short term/intense work conditions (less than 72 hours but full-on concentration in very tough physical conditions) but the other was a guy who was running out of steam after 4 months of work - mainly office based but unremitting grind and attention to detail. All of them were on full pay while they were off and no disciplinary action ever mentioned, noted or contemplated. Sometimes you have to save people from themselves............

[clareprop]

Loss of career, time in jail and the utterly humiliating and disgraceful coverage from the Daily Mail and others.

I am no apologist for The Mail but be careful you don't go too far the other way. Transport workers who carry members of the public in their vehicles have a unique requirement regarding the level of alcohol content in their blood. Unfortunately, one of the tenets of justice is deterrence and for that to work, it must be public which is unfortunately, humiliating. I don't think the gentleman in question has been treated any differently in relative terms to the majority of train or bus drivers (or indeed, other pilots) who have been found in charge, or preparing to become in charge, of their vehicle.
He will begin his rehabilitation program quite quickly and probably be released in 3 months or so. That his career is over is not in question but he is in a position many others have experienced and hopefully, he will get the support of friends and family to help him in the coming months.

[Bergerie1]

We had a policy in my company which said, if you - the man/woman with an alcohol problem - seek help, the company will lean over backwards to help. Equally, if a colleague seeks help on your behalf the company will do the same. But if you come on duty over the limit the book will be thrown at you, unless you immediately admit the problem and are willing to accept help. There were a number of success stories - but you tend only to hear about those that are not successful.

[back to Boeing]

Originally Posted by BusyB

HH,

If you think tiredness is the same as fatigue you are obviously not qualified to make any comment.

Only people who's mother tongue is English will make the distinction between fatigue and tiredness. The rest of the world doesn't.

[BusyB]

In Aviation you should be able to make that distinction regardless of your mother tongue. I accept that in other professions it may be less well known.

[beamender99]

BA pilot jailed for being three times over alcohol limit in plane cockpit

Julian Monaghan drank three double vodkas in hotel before a long-haul flight to Mauritius

Press Association
Tue 12 Jun 2018 14.04 BSTLast modified on Wed 13 Jun 2018 11.09 BSThares
589
Julian Monaghan arrives at Crawley magistrates court on Tuesday for sentencing. Photograph: Dominic Lipinski/PA A British Airways pilot has been jailed for eight months after being caught more than three times over the alcohol limit while on duty
Julian Monaghan drank three double vodkas and diet Pepsi in his hotel room on an empty stomach before he was due onboard a long-haul flight from Gatwick to Mauritius on 18 January.
Police were called when Verity McAllen, a technician who was checking the Boeing 777 before takeoff, noticed a strong smell of alcohol on Monaghan’s breath.
Passengers had already started to board the plane when he was taken from the cockpit in handcuffs on suspicion of reporting for duty as a pilot while his level of alcohol was over the limit.
Three hundred people were on the 12-hour flight, which was scheduled to leave at 9.20pm but was delayed for nearly two hours while a replacement pilot was found. It eventually left at about 11pm.
The 49-year-old pleaded guilty after tests revealed he had 86mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood in his system – more than four times the 20mg limit for a pilot.
Monaghan, who worked for BA for 17 years, initially queried the results, but resigned two months after his arrest when further tests confirmed the samples were accurate.
Sentencing him at Lewes crown court on Tuesday, the judge Janet Waddicor said: “You took a risk and it didn’t pay off because you were caught. You are in charge of a huge aircraft. The safety, if not the lives, indeed, of passengers and crew members are in the hands of the pilot. They are entitled to feel that they are safe.”
Monaghan lowered his head as he was handed his sentence before being led to the cells while a woman in the public gallery blew him a kiss.
Monaghan insisted he obeyed by the airline’s eight-hour “bottle to throttle rule”, which forbids pilots from drinking for that period of time before going on duty, and claimed he “felt fine”
In a prepared statement given to police on his arrest, he said he drank a glass of wine on his overnight flight as a passenger from Cape Town to Heathrow while travelling to report for duty
Then, when he was in his hotel resting before his shift, he drank a “measure” of vodka with diet Pepsi at about 10.15am and nothing after. He had not eaten and barely slept.
In court, Emlyn Jones, defending, said Monaghan had since remembered drinking three miniature bottles of vodka – each of which are the equivalent to a double bar serving – which he could buy at a discount in a duty-free scheme available to airline staff.
Amy Packham, prosecuting, said the reading taken at 10.30pm remained so high that he must have drunk a “significant amount” just before the eight-hour limit.
Jones said Monaghan was shocked by his arrest and surprised by the readings, and his fall from grace had been very public and had caused huge embarrassment.
His teenage son had not spoken to him since and, due to a costly divorce a decade ago, he had no savings. He was hoping to find work in South Africa – where he was living – by re-training as a drone pilot to take pictures of homes for estate agents, the court heard.
Jones said Monaghan, who gave his address as care of his solicitors, had an “impressive career” after gaining his pilot licence before he was 20. His childhood dream was to be a pilot and he was “proud and delighted” to work for BA, where he was well-liked and trusted by colleagues.
But he had been “extremely stupid” and bitterly regretted his actions, and wanted to apologise to the court, the public, passengers and his family, Jones said.
He added: “He didn’t knowingly arrive at work over the limit. Certainly he will never fly as a commercial pilot again. He appears before your honour as a shadow of the man he once was. His career and livelihood and personal and professional reputation are all up in smoke.”
Jones said being four times the limit “sounds terrible” but there was no evidence his conduct caused direct harm, adding: “He was not falling down drunk, making mistakes, being rude, picking fights.”
This article was amended on 13 June 2018. The pilot was not “more than four times over the alcohol limit”, as we said. At 66mg over the 20mg limit, he was more than three times over the limit. He had more than four times the legal limit in his blood. This has been corrected.

[Timmy Tomkins]

Originally Posted by Bergerie1

We had a policy in my company which said, if you - the man/woman with an alcohol problem - seek help, the company will lean over backwards to help. Equally, if a colleague seeks help on your behalf the company will do the same. But if you come on duty over the limit the book will be thrown at you, unless you immediately admit the problem and are willing to accept help. There were a number of success stories - but you tend only to hear about those that are not successful.

When I was active in BALPA (some years ago) there was a discussion about this and in the US unions had negotiated a proper process to allow those with problems to seek help without punishment. It seems like a sensible way to go, otherwise there is pressure for someone to hide their problem.

I know a captain with a major airline who has worked successfully and with the knowledge of his employer that he is a "recovering alcoholic" -who btw has not had a drink in 25 years. Before that he was a closet drinker with all the issues that go with that and a sensible policy like that seems a win win all round.

[MaximumPete]

I lost my long-term partner to long term alcohol abuse which became chronic in the last couple of years. This was my friend, mentor, lover and best mate and been with for over twenty-five years, a lovely lady missed by many.

I beg anyone who does have an alcohol problem to get help before it takes your life and has a lasting impact on those around you.

You only get one life! You can get help and maybe make a career move. An alcohol problem won't go away by itself.

MP

[AviatorDave]

Originally Posted by M.Mouse

If it was a case of just careless drinking I would agree. If it is alcoholism then the individual is indeed an 'addict'.

It was only later that I learned it was not a case of just having had one too much, but indeed most likely an addiction problem. A sad story, and more so since he didn‘t get a chance to sort it out and come clean before the media got their hands on him, leaving his employer no chance other than firing him.

[Daysleeper]

Originally Posted by pax britanica

To me it seems huge degree of hypocrisy over the likes of say pilots and train drivers being prosecuted or fired . Admittedly none of the people i listed can kill a couple of hundred people in a burning wreck but we have all read about over tired doctors making catastrophic mistakes, peoples lives wrecked by incorrect media reports, Who is to say someone hadn't had a few too many when signing of the spec on W London Tower block a few years ago. for example. Its hard to draw a line but I have felt that as a start any industry where some staff members are tested then everyone else has to be upto and including the CEO and in an era where people work very long hours more thought needs to be given to academic studies that show that most if not all human judgement and mental capacity is drastically reduced after 9-10 hours.

The Railway & Transport act was introduced in 2003. It didn't materialise out of thin air, every clause was written to solve some "issue" or another they thought society (that's you) was worried about. So if you don't like the law or think that a similar law should apply to others then I suggest you get busy; start a campaign group, lobby your MP, hell why not stand for parliament or donate a big enough wedge of cash to get someones manifesto to include the "Alcohol etc at work: editors, surgeons, MPs and others act 2019".

It is tragic that this has ended up this way but eight months seems in line with the sentences being handed around at the moment and remarkably consistent international sentencing considering different legal systems. Cases in the last year or so have results of Canada 8 months, Norway 6 months, Scotland 10 months.

Now for the positive. Drug and Alcohol treatment for pilots is fantastically effective and people who commit themselves to it recover to lead successful flying careers.

If you need help it is there.

[Bergerie1]

Further to my previous post, we had several pilots in my company who had been treated successfully for alcoholism and who continued their careers with distinction. When the management heard rumours that a pilot was suffering from a drinking problem one of the ploys was to manipulate the roster so that the successfuly treated pilot was teamed up with the suspect alcoholic without the suspect knowing that that had been done. This created the opportunity to discuss the company policy and how he/she could be helped. Sometimes there was a positive outcome.

[ph-sbe]

Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry

there is no simple test for fatigue/tiredness compared to that for drinking.

Mythbusters dedicated an episode to the "Deadliest Catch" TV show where crab fisherman in the Bering Sea work for days without sleep. In that particular scenario, they measured weather or not a 20-minute nap would improve performance in fatigued persons. If I recall correctly, it did.

They did tests while fully rested, while totally fatigued without any sleep, and while fatigued, but with 20 minute naps.

[Ancient Mariner]

Originally Posted by back to Boeing

Only people who's mother tongue is English will make the distinction between fatigue and tiredness. The rest of the world doesn't.

Really?
Per

[GKOC41]

Originally Posted by wiggy

Then you will no doubt be pleased to know that BA have already done exactly that over the last couple of months without seemingly finding a #canofworms to be opened, though they have promised they will be carrying out further audits of pre-duty travel in the future. Whether the particular case being discussed here was the catalyst for the very recent audit I do not know.

If you are genuinely concerned about the travelling, rest and fatigue culture at BA then I’ll point out that this summer BA are scheduling ( iaw the EASA rule set) a two pilot night flight out to the Gulf/16 hour daytime layover/two pilot night flight back to LHR. I’d suggest the fact BA are quite willing to produce rosters like that means they are perhaps not in a strong position to take the moral high ground about someone travelling to work as a passenger, sleeping quite possibly in a “comfy” seat, then having daytime rest in a hotel bed and then reporting for a duty as part of an augmented crew.

Wiggy
That's good to hear I wonder if other airlines will do the same. My point was that an AOC could unlikely roster what the Pilot did other examples might be position Europe or UK - LHR on the day, hang around a crew room for 3 hours, operate transatlantic day flight - is this any different or worse. I get your point on EASA but Pilots are there own worse enemies when it comes to commuting it's safe when crews do it of their own accord but not when the AOC roster it...

[GKOC41]

Originally Posted by BusyB

HH,

If you think tiredness is the same as fatigue you are obviously not qualified to make any comment.

Scientists call tiredness sleepiness e.g. the need to sleep.

[ShotOne]

"...pilots are their own worst enemies". No. Flight duty rules which cause performance degradation equating to an alcohol level which would have ppruners in self-righteous conniptions are the enemy.

[opnot]

random alcohol and drug testing

In the world of nats and possibly non nats units, atcos, engineers, and possibly assistants are subject to random alcohol and drugs test whilst on watch.Somebody from a company which nats uses appears unannounced at your unit and somebody is picked at random to be tested so you may not smell of alcohol but could be over the limit .Are aicrew subject to these random tests and as you cannot smell drugs has anyboby been caught or convicted of being under the influence of drugs whilst operating a aircraft

[ShotOne]

How come no testing for others in safety-critical roles? Medical staff for instance. If this had been a doctor or surgeon about to operate, nobody would have any right to impose an alcohol or any other test on him (unless he was driving a car) There would be no possibility of prosecution, very worst-case scenario would be being sent home.