Another passenger goes berserk on Delta...
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And here is the interesting bit. The reaction by the authorities is deafeningly silent. Muppets, wierdos, people with mental and some physical health problems, criminals, etc. are not suitable to people to travel on public transport. The physical system and its limitation as defined by regulations is not designed for these sorts of people so they should be excluded by legislation. Change aircraft design and include a clearly specified surcharge to handle these people then their carriage may be permitted.
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If she even attacks the guard enroute to the restroom she might not be fit to fly at all. Sounds like mental illness not like just a short breakdown. The public should not be made the guinea pig for some global selection of borderline characters onboard. Get them to show some current medical fit to fly certificate before their next flight. Before every single one.
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"...people with mental health problems and criminals are not suitable to travel on public transport..." ? Really? Kinda vague classifications for restricting travel don't you think? Or don't you?...
The vast majority of people with mental health problems pose no threat to themselves or to the public. As regards criminals,.. would an accountant convicted of fraud, or a person convicted of carrying marijuana 20-years ago be prohibited from using public transport in your world?
Terms such as "psychotic" or "dangerous criminal" as qualifying definitions would help your simplistic statement.
The vast majority of people with mental health problems pose no threat to themselves or to the public. As regards criminals,.. would an accountant convicted of fraud, or a person convicted of carrying marijuana 20-years ago be prohibited from using public transport in your world?
Terms such as "psychotic" or "dangerous criminal" as qualifying definitions would help your simplistic statement.
Last edited by evansb; 22nd Apr 2018 at 16:16.
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My son is autistic and like the approximately 1 in 68 children on the spectrum is prone to having melt downs. But on a flight back from LAX to London via Frankfurt (his first long-haul) two weeks ago he coped fine, even after we got caught up in the strikes at FRA, were re-routed several times losing our luggage on the way, and being tired, hungry, frazzled. The (fantastic) LH crew complimented us on him being so well behaved, not even realising he was autistic. It could so easily have gone the other way.. you never know. Its neither ethical or possible to discriminate in that way with any degree of efficiency and IMHO its pointless to have the discussion, frankly - if you cannot reliably screen mentally ill pilots like Andreas Lubitz how the heck are you going to screen pax?
And here is the interesting bit. The reaction by the authorities is deafeningly silent. Muppets, wierdos, people with mental and some physical health problems, criminals, etc. are not suitable to people to travel on public transport. The physical system and its limitation as defined by regulations is not designed for these sorts of people so they should be excluded by legislation. Change aircraft design and include a clearly specified surcharge to handle these people then their carriage may be permitted.
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In 2007, 45% of Australians aged 16-85 years, (or 7.3 million people), had at some point in their lifetime experienced a mental disorder. In the 12 months prior to the survey women were more likely than men to have had symptoms of mental illness. A higher rate of anxiety disorders among women was the main contributor to this difference.
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Re mental health and travel
It’s no wonder that people are driven mad by all the palava that goes with air travel. I read after a gun event in the USA the spokesman for the NRA said that anyone on medication shouldn’t have a gun. That must account for close on 50% of those living in the USA, :-)
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If she even attacks the guard enroute to the restroom she might not be fit to fly at all. Sounds like mental illness not like just a short breakdown. The public should not be made the guinea pig for some global selection of borderline characters onboard. Get them to show some current medical fit to fly certificate before their next flight. Before every single one.
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If I am getting the correct vibe from the responses in this thread, you are saying that people with ASD should not be permitted to fly. So everyone should get an ASD test before they fly and if found to be on the spectrum refused? That will be quite a few aircraft suddenly losing their pilots.....
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Are we playing people or the ball?
Maybe I should have been more specific. Maybe what I should have written was that are some people whose medical condition, either mental or physical or personal attitude to others makes them unfit to travel with members of the public. It is not fair that transport staff or worse, members of the traveling public should be placed in physical danger. It is also not fair that airlines have to suffer the economic penalties for carrying such passengers. After all, those without anti-social medical problems have rights too!
And I am acutely aware that many people suffer from some form of mental illness during their lives. Fortunately, their condition even at the height of their illness is such that they do not represent a danger to others or themselves. They are therefore suitable for air transport, much like a someone suffering from acute dysentery. Is it reasonable that people unsuitable for public travel can ruin everybody else's journey?
Being confined in an aircraft with someone intent on damaging themselves or others is not a good place to be. Unless of course I've got that wrong as well and someone says its OK. And how should it be policed? Not a clue.
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Maybe I should have been more specific. Maybe what I should have written was that are some people whose medical condition, either mental or physical or personal attitude to others makes them unfit to travel with members of the public. It is not fair that transport staff or worse, members of the traveling public should be placed in physical danger. It is also not fair that airlines have to suffer the economic penalties for carrying such passengers. After all, those without anti-social medical problems have rights too!
And I am acutely aware that many people suffer from some form of mental illness during their lives. Fortunately, their condition even at the height of their illness is such that they do not represent a danger to others or themselves. They are therefore suitable for air transport, much like a someone suffering from acute dysentery. Is it reasonable that people unsuitable for public travel can ruin everybody else's journey?
Being confined in an aircraft with someone intent on damaging themselves or others is not a good place to be. Unless of course I've got that wrong as well and someone says its OK. And how should it be policed? Not a clue.
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After all, those without anti-social medical problems have rights too!
Being confined in an aircraft with someone intent on damaging themselves or others is not a good place to be. Unless of course I've got that wrong as well and someone says its OK.
And how should it be policed?
The air marshal escorted Beach to the bathroom twice without incident, but on a third visit, Beach allegedly assaulted the air marshal by jumping on his back and attempting to choke him.
After the outburst, she was handcuffed to a seat where she spent the remainder of the flight.
Beach was identified as an American citizen living in London who also uses the name Sarah Cullum.
After the outburst, she was handcuffed to a seat where she spent the remainder of the flight.
Beach was identified as an American citizen living in London who also uses the name Sarah Cullum.
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Wonder how she's going to get back to the UK...
Ocean liner?
Passage on a cargo vessel?
Or make an adventure of it and drive all the way to the tip of Alaska, get a lift on a trawler, do a cross-deck transfer to a Russian vessel, back to a Russian port, take the Trans Siberian Express and then the Orient Express* to London. That'll cost a bit more than a standard air fare, I'll wager.
I'm assuming she gets a no-fly ban, of course.
* Fun fact; every so often the Orient Express passes about 100 ft from where I'm sitting right now, at a floor to ceiling window. I always watch in case there's a swarthy-looking chap wearing a homberg clinging precariously to the roof of a car.
Ocean liner?
Passage on a cargo vessel?
Or make an adventure of it and drive all the way to the tip of Alaska, get a lift on a trawler, do a cross-deck transfer to a Russian vessel, back to a Russian port, take the Trans Siberian Express and then the Orient Express* to London. That'll cost a bit more than a standard air fare, I'll wager.
I'm assuming she gets a no-fly ban, of course.
* Fun fact; every so often the Orient Express passes about 100 ft from where I'm sitting right now, at a floor to ceiling window. I always watch in case there's a swarthy-looking chap wearing a homberg clinging precariously to the roof of a car.
Goodness, a lot of odd views on this thread. Some of the comments about mental health issues are disturbing. Very very few people with mental health issues are a risk to others, and if they are the risk does not suddenly apply when they get in a metal tube. Those with a fear of flying are perhaps the exception, but many do not consider that a mental health issue!
We have enough issues with doctors who have no knowledge of aviation medicine trying to certify whether patients are fit to fly with physical issues.......
The fact that this is newsworthy around the world suggests the number of people who cause problems due to mental health issues are very very few, and do not justify another layer of idiotic and incompetent regulations
The big issue is those that see an airport as an excuse to get as drunk as a skunk and then become abusive in flight.
We have enough issues with doctors who have no knowledge of aviation medicine trying to certify whether patients are fit to fly with physical issues.......
The fact that this is newsworthy around the world suggests the number of people who cause problems due to mental health issues are very very few, and do not justify another layer of idiotic and incompetent regulations
The big issue is those that see an airport as an excuse to get as drunk as a skunk and then become abusive in flight.
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Lets get a few things straight. All of us have a duty of care to others. A compassionate society looks after those less fortunate than themselves. Looking after those less fortunate than yourself requires effort and understanding and for serious conditions, special training. Public transport is designed, built and operated so that something like 99% of people can be safely taken from one place to another. Those who provide the public service are geared up to look after virtually all of the people who travel upon it. But I do not know of any public transport system that trains its staff to deal with passengers suffering from extreme mental disorders. Until public transport changes (staff, design, price, legislation, process etc.) it is better for everybody that anybody suffering from extreme mental disorders do not travel long distances in confined spaces unless approved to do so by a qualified person.
Do we? I thought doctors took the patient's best interests first and would refuse to sign a person fit to fly if there was appropriate evidence to the contrary.
Not in this thread. However overall I would suggest that for my airline people with illnesses, both those that are known about and diagnosed those who suffer an unexpected turn for the worse, cause more disruption than drunks. Besides, it is in some ways easier to deal with a drunk.
So which regulations are these then?
We have for a long time been intolerant and uncaring of those unfortunate enough to suffer from mental illness. And we should do considerably more to help people so afflicted. But we shouldn't let common sense get in the way of emotion. Aeroplanes are not really nice places to be at the best of times and being on when you are ill will do nobody and good.
PM
We have enough issues with doctors who have no knowledge of aviation medicine trying to certify whether patients are fit to fly with physical issues.......
The big issue is those that see an airport as an excuse to get as drunk as a skunk and then become abusive in flight.
...do not justify another layer of idiotic and incompetent regulations
We have for a long time been intolerant and uncaring of those unfortunate enough to suffer from mental illness. And we should do considerably more to help people so afflicted. But we shouldn't let common sense get in the way of emotion. Aeroplanes are not really nice places to be at the best of times and being on when you are ill will do nobody and good.
PM
Not in this thread. However overall I would suggest that for my airline people with illnesses, both those that are known about and diagnosed those who suffer an unexpected turn for the worse, cause more disruption than drunks. Besides, it is in some ways easier to deal with a drunk.
PM
Just put some evidence on the table for that comment.
... we should do considerably more to help people so afflicted. But we shouldn't let common sense get in the way of emotion.
remove those and problem solved