Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Turkish (private) jet down in Iran

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Turkish (private) jet down in Iran

Old 5th Nov 2018, 05:39
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 7,856
Originally Posted by The Deec
Very true but unfortunately computers are better at flying planes than us weakest link humans are... they are much quicker at identifying tech /inst problems before our small brains can get our heads around a very complicated problem... Add into the mix short rest periods, fatigue, high alt ,flying long sectors through different time zones and you've got a recipe for disaster. There really is no real need for pilots any more when you think about it .
Written by a true professional pilot... or a troll?
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 07:13
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Mosquitoville
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by The Deec View Post
Very true but unfortunately computers are better at flying planes than us weakest link humans are... they are much quicker at identifying tech /inst problems before our small brains can get our heads around a very complicated problem... .
Don't suppose you could identify these superior problem solving computers... model number or name would be nice. I'd like to learn more about our replacements...
Sorry Dog is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 07:33
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cab of a Freight Train
Age: 36
Posts: 447
Originally Posted by Sorry Dog View Post
Don't suppose you could identify these superior problem solving computers... model number or name would be nice. I'd like to learn more about our replacements...
Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it...
KRviator is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 08:20
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 7,856
Originally Posted by KRAviator
Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it...
Yes, good one. That program has been a ballsup from day 1.

https://www.afr.com/business/mining/...0160419-goa4l0

All they had to do was create a big train set on a very limited rail network. Pretty simple, I would have thought. What's the Unreliable Train Speed drill??

If anything, that shows that pilots will be in the seat for a looong time yet. Better start training pilots to fly aeroplanes again because we ain't goin' nowhere!
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 08:35
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 53
Posts: 2,332
Originally Posted by The Deec View Post
Very true but unfortunately computers are better at flying planes than us weakest link humans are... they are much quicker at identifying tech /inst problems before our small brains can get our heads around a very complicated problem... Add into the mix short rest periods, fatigue, high alt ,flying long sectors through different time zones and you've got a recipe for disaster. There really is no real need for pilots any more when you think about it .
So, now you read AF447 up and tell me exactly what a computer would have done there, when precisely what the Atari did was to say: take over please, Im basically at the end of my wisdom and cant make out what happens here.

WHY a crew of 3 professionals cant understand that they just lost the pitots is a different question, one of training IMHO. Especially when the BirginAir and AeroPeru crashes were basically old news and very much accessible news.

I can tell you that we train with an international provider of the highest standards and we had to request this training to get it. EASA thinks its way more important to train one engine out scenarios until the doctor arrives, rather than the deadly stuff that really happens nowadays...
His dudeness is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 08:40
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 53
Posts: 2,332
Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs View Post
Written by a true professional pilot... or a troll?
Bloggs, to be fair: any A/P flies an apporach better than I do, any A/P keeps the speed better, the altitude etcetc.

The rest falls to us animals with skills that are not suitable, basically, and given that we do not to bad Id say....
His dudeness is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 12:27
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Europe
Posts: 181
Maybe don't turn this into a thread for "computers and AI vs. pilots"... I'm sure there is a thread somewhere else for that already.

Having just read the report and being familiar with the type of avionics, it is a stark reminder of proper procedures and airmanship. The PIC interrupting the checklist multiple times, forgetting the old but true aviate, navigate, communicate by talking to the passengers instead of dealing with the abnormal situation, completely ignoring the stall protection and stick shaker... It really has shades of the CRJ200 crash in Sweden. Both could have been prevented with an instrument cross check early on and some logical thinking.

As always, hindsight is 20/20, but still... Take a moment to analyze before acting is just so damn important.
Intrance is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 13:47
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: US
Age: 61
Posts: 406
This and several other accidents comes down to a desire for the cheapest possible training and a desire by the industry to qualify pilots who should not be in the cockpit to reduce costs. It’s not going to change. Cost is king!
Sailvi767 is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 13:49
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Москва/Ташкент
Age: 50
Posts: 788
it is a stark reminder of proper procedures and airmanship
You are far too diplomatic, the PIC made every single mistake in the book.
flash8 is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 14:38
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Singapore
Posts: 12
Selecting idle at cruise level sounds very unwise.... Tick tock tick tock....
JulioLS is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 16:42
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,245
Originally Posted by Intrance View Post
Could get it no problem, also Europe.
Is it small enough for you to upload to PPRuNe?
aterpster is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 16:55
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Europe
Posts: 181
Originally Posted by aterpster View Post
Is it small enough for you to upload to PPRuNe?
Just tried but it doesn't seem to accept it. It's about 2,7MB, apparently too big in this day and age.

Here's a link if this works:
TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free
Intrance is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 17:11
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,245
Originally Posted by Intrance View Post
Just tried but it doesn't seem to accept it. It's about 2,7MB, apparently too big in this day and age.

Here's a link if this works:
TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free
That worked. Thanks!!
aterpster is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2018, 05:46
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by Sailvi767 View Post
This and several other accidents comes down to a desire for the cheapest possible training and a desire by the industry to qualify pilots who should not be in the cockpit to reduce costs. It’s not going to change. Cost is king!
Yes it will change....when you (the industry) has killed enough of your customers.

Last edited by Setright; 11th Nov 2018 at 03:52. Reason: Clarity
Setright is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2018, 19:21
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hotel Sheets, Downtown Plunketville
Age: 72
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Anvaldra View Post
Some colleagues flew there that day and experienced very unstable atmosphere which caused speed shift, beyond the limitation in certain cases
That would seem to contradict the THY crew`s report that they were in smooth conditions.
However the accident flight was in known wx conditions with active CB cells around.
So pitot icing remains the favorite.
The crew was alerted to instrument differences at 14:31:55 and at 14:39:39 recording ceased. Just about 8 minutes, that`s more than enough time to identify the problem and sort things out would be my thoughts. Am afraid there is nothing in the report that makes me think other than the crew`s failure to cope with instrument malfunction.
The curious thing is that the captain`s remains have not been found/identified. Especially having regard to the facts that the aircraft impacted the ground intact, at low speed, the debris field was not extensive and the victims died of blunt trauma injuries. That seems to be the only question remaining about this particular accident.
Chronus is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.