An-148 missing after takeoff from Moscow
An old accident, still as relevant as Birgenair, AF447.
The B727 pitot heat was not automatic and had to be turned on during the cockpit check.
http://libraryonline.erau.edu/online...s/AAR75-13.pdf
"About 1926 EST on December 1. 1974, Northwest Airlines Flight 6231, a Boeing 727-251 crashed about 3.2 mi west of Thiells, New York. The accident occurred about 12 minutes after the flight had departed John F. Kennedy International Airport, Jamaica, New York, and while on a ferry flight to Buffalo, New York. Three crew-members, the only persons aboard the aircraft, died in the crash. The aircraft was destroyed.
"The aircraft stalled at 24,800 feet MSL., and entered an uncontrolled spiral descent into the ground. Throughout the stall and descent, the flight crew did not recognize the actual condition of the aircraft and did not take the correct measures necessary to return the aircraft to level flight. Near 3,500 feet m.s.l., a large portion of the left horizontal stabilizer separated from the aircraft, which made control of the aircraft impossible.
"The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the loss of control of the aircraft because the flight crew failed to recognize and correct the aircraft's high-angle-of-attack, low-speed stall and its descending spiral. The stall was precipitated by the flight crew's improper reaction to erroneous airspeed and Mach indications which had resulted from a blockage of the pitot heads by atmospheric icing. Contrary to standard operational procedures the flight crew had not activated the pitot head heaters."
The B727 pitot heat was not automatic and had to be turned on during the cockpit check.
http://libraryonline.erau.edu/online...s/AAR75-13.pdf
"About 1926 EST on December 1. 1974, Northwest Airlines Flight 6231, a Boeing 727-251 crashed about 3.2 mi west of Thiells, New York. The accident occurred about 12 minutes after the flight had departed John F. Kennedy International Airport, Jamaica, New York, and while on a ferry flight to Buffalo, New York. Three crew-members, the only persons aboard the aircraft, died in the crash. The aircraft was destroyed.
"The aircraft stalled at 24,800 feet MSL., and entered an uncontrolled spiral descent into the ground. Throughout the stall and descent, the flight crew did not recognize the actual condition of the aircraft and did not take the correct measures necessary to return the aircraft to level flight. Near 3,500 feet m.s.l., a large portion of the left horizontal stabilizer separated from the aircraft, which made control of the aircraft impossible.
"The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the loss of control of the aircraft because the flight crew failed to recognize and correct the aircraft's high-angle-of-attack, low-speed stall and its descending spiral. The stall was precipitated by the flight crew's improper reaction to erroneous airspeed and Mach indications which had resulted from a blockage of the pitot heads by atmospheric icing. Contrary to standard operational procedures the flight crew had not activated the pitot head heaters."
Since the original stick shaker/pusher was driven by angle of attack, I do not understand why unusual AoA is not given a more prominent display/siren. Would have helped in AF447. Maybe here too.
But I am an engineer, not a pilot, so my apologies if this is a dumb suggestion.
But I am an engineer, not a pilot, so my apologies if this is a dumb suggestion.
DType,
No - it is not a dumb suggestion. And after the Air France accident there was much discussion here on Proone about the virtues of having an angle of attack display.
However, in my view, one of the most basic parts of flying is to know the appropriate power and attitudes for each phase of flight. Others have already said it but - Power plus Attitude equalls Performance.
Whether this was something that might have saved this accident we will not know until we have seen the final report.
No - it is not a dumb suggestion. And after the Air France accident there was much discussion here on Proone about the virtues of having an angle of attack display.
However, in my view, one of the most basic parts of flying is to know the appropriate power and attitudes for each phase of flight. Others have already said it but - Power plus Attitude equalls Performance.
Whether this was something that might have saved this accident we will not know until we have seen the final report.
@Kulverstukas or AN drivers
Do you know how the pitot heat in AN 148 is activated?
Manual via switches (like 727, older 737)?
OR
AUTO like on Airbus (at least one eng running)
Do you know how the pitot heat in AN 148 is activated?
Manual via switches (like 727, older 737)?
OR
AUTO like on Airbus (at least one eng running)
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An old accident, still as relevant as Birgenair, AF447.
The B727 pitot heat was not automatic and had to be turned on during the cockpit check.
http://libraryonline.erau.edu/online...s/AAR75-13.pdf
The B727 pitot heat was not automatic and had to be turned on during the cockpit check.
http://libraryonline.erau.edu/online...s/AAR75-13.pdf
I was on the 727 at the time. I often wondered why one of three on that NWA crew didn't double-check the pitot heat when things first started going screwy in obviously bad winter weather.
Because proper training/experience costs money, either in salaries or airplane/sim time. The penny pinchers rule now, we must deal with it, hopefully without losses
Last edited by rigpiggy; 14th Feb 2018 at 15:12. Reason: Reply to the post on p. 7
PLZ remember that USAF lost a B-2 on takeoff because of moisture/water in the air data sensor lines. Simple procedures were adopted and voila!
You can have the pitot heat on as early as you want but it won't prevent or melt ice further up stream. So it's possible to have moisture that freezes once the bird gets up and with cold air flowing thru the tubes.
I am having a hard time with the gees as well as the power/pitch procedures.
You can have the pitot heat on as early as you want but it won't prevent or melt ice further up stream. So it's possible to have moisture that freezes once the bird gets up and with cold air flowing thru the tubes.
I am having a hard time with the gees as well as the power/pitch procedures.
Last edited by gums; 14th Feb 2018 at 16:50. Reason: typo
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You are not supposed to run the heat while on the ground for more than 2 minutes which can lead to a fair amount of on/off switching before takeoff.
Easy mistake to make
Easy mistake to make
So much for Pitch&Power. The AI must have been showing a lot of Brown stuff (Probably 'Brown out'). And still no clue that something is wrong?
Wow!
Will be interesting what CVR will say. Probably total chaos and total panic. Scary.
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I am sorry if this sounds silly but wouldn't the captain have a clue something was wrong with the pitch when he had to, effectively, walk up a steep hill to get back to the flight deck?
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Reported that captain has military experience with 5099 h total including 2147 h on AN148 (as captain since 2017) and co-pilot has 812 h total flight time
Last edited by Anvaldra; 15th Feb 2018 at 15:28.