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FO removed from BA Flight

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FO removed from BA Flight

Old 20th Jan 2018, 11:57
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Should be treated like drinking and driving, or any other self-induced impairment, then.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 12:44
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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The use of Firearm Officers

At most large U.K. airports thereís three police units and a Border Force presence for different law enforcement activities. The Police in general have three roles.

1) Firearm units, there as 1st point of call for counterterrorism where an actual event is being undertaken.
2) Uniform Police who are there for general police duties and would normally deal with instances of this type.
3) Border Police Command CTC Intel Officers, the oneís used to be called SB wear plain clothes and are there for Intel gathering duties in the main
4) Border Force who mainly deal with the Immigration Acts & Customs & Excise legislation but have been given powers to detain on behalf the police for other offences.

When a call would have been made then it would have been likely based on what duties the Officers were doing that the quickest response would be the armed unit. This maybe due geography of the airport or that uniform were busy dealing with something else. Itís unfortunate that in the U.K. because a cop is carrying a firearm it automatically means that the situation meant the FO needed to be pulled from cabin ala Daily Mail sensationalism. It could have been the uniform cops or plain clothes cops (who probably left their kit in the office as it doesnít sit well under there suits) who arrived at the plane to arrest the FO under suspicion of circs were different. I expect now that a charge has been raised and heís been remanded, that a blood test and/or breath test has been done. The initial test at the aircraft as in driving is guide to allow Officers in England & Wales to arrest on suspicion (although no test is needed if the officers donít have a machine itís suspicion, so smell, slurred speech or anything to suggest he was unfit to fly would mean he could be detained). The tests at the station will be the evidence for the charge and court proceedings. Until the magistrate has given his decision the FO is innocent under the law, unfortunately not by the media.

Last edited by GLAEDI; 20th Jan 2018 at 12:45. Reason: Grammar
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 12:56
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Assuming a couple of comments are correct a few questions arise. It is alleged that the cabin crew were concerned and alerted the authorities. That would suggest that they by-passed the captain. It was alleged that the captain was covering for a colleague pilot. Surely, especially in BA, the cabin crew would first approach the captain. If he refused to take action they could make their displeasure known and refuse to fly. The captain could then strongly advise the pilot to call in sick and get off the a/c PDQ. In that case the police would never have entered the picture. Also, as this was a long-haul flight all crew members would have met for a pre-flight briefing and introductions. Surely any suspicions could have been voiced then and a SBY called out. It is quite a while before they arrived at a/c, when this matter erupted. It seems an odd course of events.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 13:02
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KeyPilot View Post
Never EVER grass up your mates.

Think all ex mil flight crew will be well schooled in this time-honoured principle.

If I was capt and my relief FO was drunk, I'd keep him in his seat/bunk for the flight, and resolve the issue the old-fashioned way (out of sight of CCTV) on arrival at the hotel.
And if you were then incapacitated? There are two (or more) guys in the pointy end for a reason.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 13:19
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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While in no way suggesting that being under the influence should be condoned, I do wonder at a company culture and individual motives where any crew might choose to call 999, and make a very public event, instead of opting for a less sensational course. Is this some need for personal attention?

The circumstances are not entirely clear or certain from these pages, for sure. However, more often than I care to count, during ground courses I have seen evidence of crew wanting to get an advantage over someone else in their future 'team'.
In a particular ground course for a new cabin crew intake, I was amazed to see a considerable amount of training time was given over to discipline, reporting and whistleblowing, and a particular emphasis (and corresponding interest) made on how to properly report crew members, especially pilots.

Is this where the industry is going?
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 13:23
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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The lunatics on this thread need more than a breathalyser :-)

There isnít any evidence of an industry wide problem. This could be Ketosis, particularly as the other Pilots didnít say... Go home you are sick

Peer intervention
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 13:30
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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What a pity there isn't a law against being drunk in charge of a keyboard, I think that would seriously affect many journos, and a significant number of contributors on here as well!!
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 13:35
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KeyPilot View Post
Never EVER grass up your mates.

Think all ex mil flight crew will be well schooled in this time-honoured principle.

If I was capt and my relief FO was drunk, I'd keep him in his seat/bunk for the flight, and resolve the issue the old-fashioned way (out of sight of CCTV) on arrival at the hotel.
In the US at least you would face the loss of your certificate for knowingly allowing a required crew member to work intoxicated. Covering for a crew member in the manner suggested merely insures he will fly again intoxicated. The proper way to handle it would be to have the pilot exit the aircraft and be replaced. From there he would be required to enter a alcohol treatment program. ALPA has a very successful program with a near 100% return to work rate.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 13:47
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Never EVER grass up your mates.
Indeed. The proper action is 'go home..you are very ill'. Then call them in ill. Then afterwards, go round and read the riot act to them.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 13:55
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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KeyPilot

Doing what you suggest, puts your own liberty and livelihood at risk. You are committing a criminal offence. You will deserve everything you get, should your method be discovered.

As a point of information. It used to be the case at LGW that pilots and crew might not meet each other until on board the jet?

Many potential sub plots could be involved in this story. Reporting so late in the evening, probably rules out the usual reasons?

Many BA pilots are now active on Social Media.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 14:02
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sharksandwich View Post
You are suggesting pilots fly while indulging in odd blood sugar practices?
I doubt it!
Why not? we have police officers on blue light pursuits while fasting, ambulance drivers on 999 response while fasting.... pilots hopefully only have to save lives less than once in a career, police and ambulance, several times a day maybe. And no, I don't agree with it - any person fasting in an emergency response role should take holiday, or assigned desk duties - and that can go for pilots too. /Rant Over
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 14:14
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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" Fasting and flying is very common in the Middle East."

and there is no need for it

There are specific exemptions in the Koran & Hadith including travel, anything related to the safety & welfare of others, warfare, menstruation, severe illness, pregnancy, and breastfeeding. ] Those who are unable to fast still must make up the days missed late
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 14:22
  #33 (permalink)  
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What is industry wide is scheduling Crew so they are so tired/fatigued that their performance is worse than a person who has had 6 beers.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 14:37
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Just a thought - if the media is to be believed, is it really necessary for the police to be so heavy handed?
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 14:47
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Time to understand what "irony" means...
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 14:49
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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BA

Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
"Because the Captain covered his buddy and the lead FA ratted.
Nice Crew synergy."

you seem to be suggesting the Captain was right and the lead FA was wrong ?
Time to understand what "irony" means...
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 14:54
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Surely, especially in BA, the cabin crew would first approach the captain. If he refused to take action they could make their displeasure known and refuse to fly.
Senior long-haul CC in BA are a law upon themselves.
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 15:34
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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KeyPilot
Luckily there remains some scope for decision-making based on personal abilities and experiences (despite the relentless march of our industry in the opposite direction!)
By all means feel free to make whatever clever decisions you wish. Just be sure it’s only your liberty and livelihood you’re gambling with. I certainly wouldn’t allow you to involve me in the criminal act you suggested!

The press reports suggested it was armed police who arrested this individual. An earlier post here mentions that may just simply be, because those officers were the ones best able to respond quickest? It might very well be that armed officers have no option other than to restrain those they detain?

I suspect most would be more concerned about liberty and career, than cuffs!
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 15:42
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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The fact the police have kept him in suggests he has failed a test ................

From the BBC

A 49-year-old man from west London has been arrested and remains in police custody, Sussex Police said. The man, from Harmondsworth, West Drayton, has been arrested on suspicion of performing an aviation function when the level of alcohol was over the prescribed limit.

A spokesman for British Airways told the BBC: "We are taking this matter extremely seriously. "We are sorry for the delay to our customers. The aircraft remained at the gate until an alternative third pilot joined the flight crew." The Boeing 777 was due to leave Gatwick's South Terminal at 20:20 GMT but was delayed until just before 23:00.ndal
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Old 20th Jan 2018, 15:49
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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"Luckily there remains some scope for decision-making based on personal abilities and experiences "

These days no-one is going to allow anyone near the cockpit if there is the slightest doubt that they are intoxicated (well at least outside the Russian Federation). If there is a medical reason why they appear over the limit then it may still impair their performance. If they are not impaired (for whatever reason) they have the chance to explain/ be tested but no-one is put at risk.
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