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Air NZ 787 RR engine issues

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Air NZ 787 RR engine issues

Old 10th Jan 2018, 13:27
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torquelink View Post
When Ethiopian took some of the terrible teens, they considered swapping Trents for GenX but decided against it in the end. If the Trent 1000's woes continue, swaps could happen.
Fair enough, though I'd be surprised if we see that happening.

I agree that the common pylon makes sense for lessors, who can obviously make late powerplant choices for aircraft on order without requiring expensive rework.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 18:09
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Norwegian press also reporting 787 engine replacements for Norwegian...

https://e24.no/naeringsliv/norwegian...orene/24227528
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 19:12
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torquelink View Post
When Ethiopian took some of the terrible teens, they considered swapping Trents for GenX but decided against it in the end.
Which seems to imply it's not a straightforward switch.

Are the GE engine's icing issues near thunderstorms still continuing ?
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 19:24
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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The plan for the 787 has always been to make the aircraft engines "plug and play". It's not just the pylon, it's all the other system connections (for example Rolls has an inlet P2 probe heated by aircraft electricity - ~500 watts - that GE doesn't need). As Torquelink notes, it helps the resale value to be able to swap between GE and Rolls.
A couple years ago I asked a co-worker who was on the 787 if they'd actually made the plug and play work, he said it wasn't certified but didn't know why (or if there was some sort of showstopper that would prevent it being certified). I haven't heard anything further (and since I'm now retired I'm pretty much out of the loop).

The Ice Crystal Icing issue on the 787 GEnx-1B was cleared about 2 years ago with a FADEC software change. A similar s/w change was incorporated on the 747-8 GEnx-2B which cleared it for ICI up to 35k. To clear the 747 for ICI up to the 43k service ceiling requires a hardware change which will take a few more years to circulate through the entire fleet.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 02:24
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Note the possible Etops change.
April 13, 2018 / 12:25 AM / Updated 7 hours ago

Rolls-Royce and airlines grapple with further Dreamliner engine issues


LONDON (Reuters) - Rolls-Royce (RR.L) requires more money and more inspections to fix problems with Trent 1000 engines on Boeing (BA.N) 787 Dreamliner planes, leading to further disruption for airlines and testing relations between Rolls and its customers. Problems with engine turbine blades wearing out sooner than expected have hampered a restructuring program prompted by the engineering company’s declining older engine program and plunging demand for oil equipment.

It said on Friday that more regular inspections are required and would lead “to higher than previously guided cash costs being incurred during 2018”.

“We sincerely regret the disruption this will cause to our customers,” CEO Warren East said in a statement.

Airlines have already been forced to alter schedules or lease other aircraft, but the latest issues could be more far-reaching.

Regulators eye new measures after Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 glitches: source

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) plans to reduce the amount of time the affected planes can fly on a single engine after a failure of the other. The time limit would drop as low as 140 minutes, compared with the current window of 330 minutes, a source familiar with the plans said.


This effectively curtails operations across oceans or remote areas.

The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) will also order increased inspections of affected engines in line with actions outlined by Rolls-Royce. Currently inspections must be carried out after every 200 flight cycles.






The two advisories are due to be issued on Friday, the source said.

Rolls said it would reprioritize spending to mitigate the costs and kept its 2018 free cash flow guidance unchanged at about 450 million pounds ($643 million), give or take 100 million pounds.

Shares in Rolls, one of the biggest names in British manufacturing, were down 1.3 percent by 1251 GMT.

It announced the need for stepped up inspections after liaising with authorities over a separate issue with the compressor on Trent 1000 Package C series engines. Rolls said there were 380 such engines in service.

Boeing said that about 25 percent of the Dreamliners flying were powered by the engine and it was deploying support teams to help to manage service disruptions.






General Electric (GE.N) engines used on some Boeing 787 Dreamliners are not affected.

ENGINE SHORTAGES

The need to inspect and repair Trent 1000 engines has led to an industry-wide shortage.

CEO East said Rolls was working with Boeing and airlines to minimize the disruption.

“Our team of technical experts and service engineers is working around the clock to ensure we return them to full service as soon as possible,” he said.






Rolls-Royce Holdings PLC866.8


RR.LLondon Stock Exchange

-14.40(-1.63%)


RR.L

• RR.L
• BA.N
• GE.N
• ICAG.L
• 9202.T

Norwegian Air, which has the engines in 15 of its 27 Boeing 787s, said it hopes to have inspected all of its engines before May 26 and that it had already found one problem that required an engine to be replaced.

“It’s disappointing and frustrating that our new aircraft don’t work the way they are supposed to,” spokesman Lasse Sandaker-Nilsen said, adding that it had canceled a flight from Paris to New York next week as a result.

“We have an ongoing dialogue with both Boeing and Rolls-Royce and we have been told this problem has their full attention.”

Virgin Atlantic [VA.UL] has up to four 787s grounded at any one time while it sources replacement engines with Rolls and has also leased three Airbus A330-200s to help to cover its flying program.

A Virgin spokeswoman said it had been aware of the increased inspections announced on Friday and that the cover it had in place would be sufficient.



British Airways (ICAG.L), Japan’s ANA (9202.T), Air New Zealand (AIR.NZ) and Thai Airways, which also use Trent 1000 engines, were not available for immediate comment.

Scoot, a budget carrier owned by Singapore Airlines (SIAL.SI), said it expected some impact on operations.

In December the EASA ordered airlines to replace some Trent 1000 engines.

In March, Rolls said the cash hit from the problem should peak at 340 million pounds in 2018 before falling in 2019.

ng to do re Etops.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 04:41
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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The time limit would drop as low as 140 minutes, compared with the current window of 330 minutes, a source familiar with the plans said.
That's going to really limit them across the Pacific - 140 won't get you from the US mainland to Hawaii - and will similarly limit other southerly Pacific routes.
Between mainland US and Asia goes up along the Alaska coast and then down along Siberia - alternates are available (assuming the weather cooperates) so that should still be OK...
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 19:45
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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I presume the EASA AD will have more effect than the FAA AD.

FAA could put a massive hurt on Boeing 787 this week

April 15, 2018 by Paul Ausick

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is expected to issue a new airworthiness directive (AD) this week that could severely limit the flight operations of The Boeing Co.’s (NYSE: BA) 787 Dreamliner. The problem revolves around a continuing issue with the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines that power about 25% of the 787’s customer fleets.

The FAA’s AD is expected to slash the long-range operations of the R-R-powered 787s by more than half and possibly by as much as 80%. Last Friday the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), issued an AD for all R-R-powered 787s requiring more inspections and limiting the plane’s operation to a distance of no more than 60-minutes flying time from the nearest airport.

The R-R engines have suffered from corrosion problems with the turbine’s fan blades for a couple of years now. All Nippon Airways (ANA) was forced to cancel flights in August of 2016 to replace the fan blades. ANA also said at the time that it could take three-years fully to correct the problem. The Japanese carrier was the launch customer for Boeing’s 787 and currently has 64 787s in its fleet.

In addition to more frequent engine inspections, the FAA is likely to reduce or suspend the R-R-powered 787s’ “Extended-range Twin-engine Operations,” known in the industry as ETOPS. Prior to about 2007, a twin-engine aircraft could not operate more than 60-minutes away from a diversionary airport due to the possibility of an engine failure [I remember the timeline a little differently - Airbubba]. The new, more powerful engines could qualify for extended operations that would allow the aircraft to fly up to 330 minutes from a safe landing location.
https://247wallst.com/aerospace-defe...787-this-week/

FAA AD may severely limit ETOPS of some RR-powered 787s: sources

April 14, 2018, An airworthiness directive from the US Federal Aviation Administration is expected as early as Tuesday that could severely restrict flight operations some of Rolls-Royce-powered Boeing 787s.

The AD is expected to require inspections and a reduction in the ETOPS long-range operation to 140 minutes from the nearest airport from 330 minutes, sources say. Inspections have to be made by May 20, according to preliminary information. If inspections fail, ETOPS may be reduced to 60, two airlines tell LNC. A third source didn’t have the numbers but said the AD is expected to be “onerous.”

Until the AD is issued and published, the numbers and conditions could change, one source tells LNC on background.

EASA, the European safety agency, issued its AD yesterday, with an April 20 effective date.
https://leehamnews.com/2018/04/14/fa...-787s-sources/
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 20:06
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Which 787-RRs is this exactly ? It does not seem to be all of them, old and new.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 20:15
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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I know that all engine manufacturers have have serious issues from time to time but what does this mean for RR. GE are part of a gigantic conglomerate with huge financial support behind them. P&W are in deep trouble with the geared fan for narrow bodies but RR are not really a very big company despite their heritage and remarkable ability to keep up with and sometimes ahead of the amrket in an industry that places incredible demands on technology.

I am certainly not knocking them but I do not want to see one of the few largish Britiish engineering companies disappear like the car arm did and this seems likely to amke serious demands on financials due to compensation issues, potential loss of sales and diversion of resources from R&D on other projects .

PB
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 22:30
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Which 787-RRs is this exactly ? It does not seem to be all of them, old and new.
One of the articles says 380 engines are affected, which would mean roughly half the Rolls powered 787s (possibly more, since some aircraft may only have one affected engine).
No first hand knowledge, but given the nature of the problem I would expect the AD to target engines with more than a given number of hours/cycles. It's also possible some new build or recently overhauled engines have a fix and aren't affected.

Airbubba - most local authorities will automatically adopt any AD issued by EASA or the FAA, and I'd expect the EASA and FAA AD's to have the same limitations (they actually do talk to each other , and they are presumably using the same data and analysis of the issue).
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 22:52
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
One of the articles says 380 engines are affected, which would mean roughly half the Rolls powered 787s
I'm sure someone will correct my if wrong, but...

As I recall, when ANA started having issues, the RR "temporary fix" was to replace the blades/engines with the same potentially faulty ones, but new parts, so at least they could keep operating while RR worked on a permanent fix.

If that was the case, then they will need to redo all the ones that they did in the early days as well.

Can anyone confirm or otherwise?

Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
I am certainly not knocking them but I do not want to see one of the few largish Britiish engineering companies disappear like the car arm did and this seems likely to amke serious demands on financials due to compensation issues, potential loss of sales and diversion of resources from R&D on other projects .
I agree, but these companies really need to get back to quality engineering. This "agile" disease seems to be spreading everywhere these days, and its just profits ahead of everything. Schedule must be kept, and if testing, quality and corners have to be cut to meet it, then so be it. Any problems will be dealt with in the field as they occur. Boeing have had a very high level of issues with the B787 over the years, and of course Tesla are the latest casualty of this approach.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 09:24
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
I am certainly not knocking them but I do not want to see one of the few largish Britiish engineering companies disappear like the car arm did and this seems likely...
Not likely; in fact zero chance of that happening. RR are critical; they build and maintain the reactors for the UK's nuclear submarine fleet remember. They'll be propped up by HMG if necessary.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 09:40
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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they build and maintain the reactors for the UK's nuclear submarine fleet remember. They'll be propped up by HMG if necessary.
HMG might be prepared to "prop up" that element of RR on the grounds of national security, but the question might be is HMG prepared to use tax payers money to protect the aero engine portion of RR?
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 10:43
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Just a philosophical point:-
As a former R&D engineer, I was always amazed by those who would enthusiastically buy the latest development. Inevitably, they got lumbered with the teething troubles, despite our very best testing efforts.
But without such willing customers, all progress would have stalled.
C'est la vie!
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 05:04
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Apparently charter operator Hi Fly are headed back to NZ to pick up the slack while inspections and maintenance are carried out, along with 100 crew. Must be an expensive exercise, I wonder who's picking up the tab. RR?
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 09:28
  #96 (permalink)  
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According to Scoop NZ, the FAA directive includes weight restrictions, and some Air NZ flights to NZ destinations will make extra fuel stops on the way. ETOPS 120 still covers all their Asian destinations, this is on top of that.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 09:43
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From Airlinerwatch.

Boeing introduced the Trent 1000 C four years ago on the 787-9. The first problems with Rolls-Royce's Dreamliner engines appeared two years ago in Japanese operator ANA's operations. Since then, several operators across the globe reported engine malfunctions.

Due to corrosion and cracks in the blades of the medium-pressure turbine, the Trent 1000 is already being monitored by EASA and FAA.

After a series of engine failures, FAA and EASA issued Emergency Airworthiness Directives at the end of 2017. Since then, engines with the increased risk of failure may no longer be used in pairs on the same aircraft.

The British Engine manufacturer Rolls-Royce announced in March that the problems would cost the company around 340 million pounds in 2018 and another 240 million pounds in 2019.

Rolls-Royce will probably need to correct these numbers ​​upwards.

https://airlinerwatch.com/airline-op...for-the-787-9/
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 11:55
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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bnt is right. There are weight restrictions at the ETOPS entry point, intended to require reduced power on the remaining engine to protect it for the diversion. It's warm temperature limiting, and as most AirNZ long haul flights cross through equatorial areas,this makes it even worse. The 140 min limitation would normally allow all non Nth/Sth America routes to be flown, so this weight/temperature problem is major.
(AKL-HNL just fits, it needs 138min!) AirNZ are really unlucky in this Trent crisis, because they bought and operate these planes for very long haul overwater flights, and it's hitting them hard. One plane (Trent 1000 TEN) unrestricted. Two Grounded. All the rest subject to above. Meanwhile, there is a warehouse near the RR facility in Singapore slowly filling up with the backlog of unserviceable Trents. Bosses at both RR and AirNZ, and no doubt many other operators not getting much sleep!
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 12:42
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What is the actual work required on theengines ? Is it fully identified, and how long does it take ? Is there a production line set up for the work, and is the fix permanent ?
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 15:11
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If you can get this information out of RR,
you'll be the greatest detective since
Sherlock Holmes!
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