US Dept of Commerce slaps 220% tax on Bombardier c series
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: NV USA
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
China is reportedly in talks to buy into Bombardier - Business Insider
This was a couple months ago but look for a new push into China with the U.S. tariffs.
This was a couple months ago but look for a new push into China with the U.S. tariffs.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: PA
Age: 59
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just follow the Lazy B business model. (and Mercedes Benz, Toyota, et al)
Get a Southern State to give you $Billions in tax breaks and build a new facility for you.
Have the parts built worldwide and shipped there.
Do final assembly and call it "Made in America". I am sure that 90% is not manufacturered in Canada anyways.
Problem solved.
Get a Southern State to give you $Billions in tax breaks and build a new facility for you.
Have the parts built worldwide and shipped there.
Do final assembly and call it "Made in America". I am sure that 90% is not manufacturered in Canada anyways.
Problem solved.
Do final assembly and call it "Made in America". I am sure that 90% is not manufactured in Canada anyways.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
Age: 69
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The C-series involves fuselage components built in China, wings build in the EU (Northern Ireland) and electronics built in the US. And that's just off the top of my head
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
Age: 69
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
So the finacial aid provided by Quebec is protecting US jobs (as well as in China, EU and, of course, Quebec)
So the finacial aid provided by Quebec is protecting US jobs (as well as in China, EU and, of course, Quebec)
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Near St Lawrence River
Age: 53
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some clarifications regarding the suppliers from China and US, also about the Quebec's billion.
A company SACC in Shenyang has been a long-time supplier of fuselage components for Bombardier’s Q400 turboprops, but it was unproven in the type of composite parts the CSeries use. Bombardier has repatriated the mid-fuselage work for the CSeries from SACC to its plant in Belfast. However, Bombardier could expand its activities at China's Shenyang Company, but I guess it could be related to possible deals to be announced during a visit of the Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to China.
https://ca.reuters.com/article/busin...CN1C117U-OCABS
The current reality: C Series is made up of 55% components from US suppliers. This is why imposing tariffs on the C Series will negatively impact over 22,000 high-skill jobs in the USA. Over half of the C Series is produced in the US...
https://www.airinsight.com/us-manufacturing-impact/
Actually, Quebec’s Bombardier bailout isn’t as crazy as it sounds. The Canadian province receives a 49.5% stake in a limited partnership formed with Bombardier for the CSeries program, and a 20-year commitment to keep Bombardier's operations in Quebec. The deal also includes the transfer to the new limited partnership of thousands of employees, vendor contracts, and clients along with the assets and intellectual property of the design, manufacturing, and marketing of the CS100 and CS300 planes.
A company SACC in Shenyang has been a long-time supplier of fuselage components for Bombardier’s Q400 turboprops, but it was unproven in the type of composite parts the CSeries use. Bombardier has repatriated the mid-fuselage work for the CSeries from SACC to its plant in Belfast. However, Bombardier could expand its activities at China's Shenyang Company, but I guess it could be related to possible deals to be announced during a visit of the Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to China.
https://ca.reuters.com/article/busin...CN1C117U-OCABS
The current reality: C Series is made up of 55% components from US suppliers. This is why imposing tariffs on the C Series will negatively impact over 22,000 high-skill jobs in the USA. Over half of the C Series is produced in the US...
https://www.airinsight.com/us-manufacturing-impact/
Actually, Quebec’s Bombardier bailout isn’t as crazy as it sounds. The Canadian province receives a 49.5% stake in a limited partnership formed with Bombardier for the CSeries program, and a 20-year commitment to keep Bombardier's operations in Quebec. The deal also includes the transfer to the new limited partnership of thousands of employees, vendor contracts, and clients along with the assets and intellectual property of the design, manufacturing, and marketing of the CS100 and CS300 planes.
Last edited by _Phoenix; 5th Oct 2017 at 00:55.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: PA
Age: 59
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
make that 300%
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Commerce Department on Friday notched up proposed trade duties on Bombardier Inc CSeries jets to nearly 300 percent, affirming Boeing Co’s complaint that the Canadian company received illegal subsidies and dumped the planes at “absurdly low” prices.
The decision underscored the defensive trade policy of U.S. President Donald Trump, and could effectively halt sales of Bombardier’s innovative new plane to U.S. airlines by quadrupling the cost of the jets imported to the United States.
The Commerce Department proposed a 79.82 percent antidumping duty on Friday, on top of a 219.63 percent duty for subsidies announced last week.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Commerce Department on Friday notched up proposed trade duties on Bombardier Inc CSeries jets to nearly 300 percent, affirming Boeing Co’s complaint that the Canadian company received illegal subsidies and dumped the planes at “absurdly low” prices.
The decision underscored the defensive trade policy of U.S. President Donald Trump, and could effectively halt sales of Bombardier’s innovative new plane to U.S. airlines by quadrupling the cost of the jets imported to the United States.
The Commerce Department proposed a 79.82 percent antidumping duty on Friday, on top of a 219.63 percent duty for subsidies announced last week.
It was suggested elsewhere that a Canadian based leasing company could assume the aircraft slots currently assigned to Delta and then lease them to Delta. Not much the Commerce Department could do about that.
I see that the tariff is now proposed to increase to about 300%. This is based on Delta receiving a reported 75% discount on the list price. I understand from insiders that the average agreed discount is around 50%, (Don't ask me why manufacturers quote such high list prices.) Furthermore, as in many industries there are discounts for early purchases. Apart from trying to establish a line this reflects the fact the early operators will incur higher debugging costs as it takes a while for a product to mature. 50% is a high discount for this but not unprecedented.
There is another way of looking at it. Environmentalists claim that aviation is under taxed (although if you look at it as a proportion of low cost ticket on a budget airline you would may well argue otherwise). It is certainly true that some subsidies have been gained via the military procurement/research route). Is proposing tariffs a good way of taxing aviation for Government's requiring revenue, particularly as the idea comes from within the industry itself?
A lot of airfares are sold at marginal cost, that is a very low rate. (This is particularly true where there are low fixed charges such as taxes and airport passenger charges.) Could you argue that offering low fares is dumping? Well an economist who understands marginal costing would disagree and it they are popular with passengers, but it is exactly the same argument. Think of fares prior to deregulation - and bucket shops, dubious affinity charters and the like.
The problem, particularly in America but unfortunately spreading globally, is that the game isn't just producing a better product more efficiently but using other means such as legal action to secure an advantage often against agile competitors. Trump, before he became President, was the classic example of this. I really hope that everything blows over and that tariffs are imposed because the loser will be aviation industry.
There is another way of looking at it. Environmentalists claim that aviation is under taxed (although if you look at it as a proportion of low cost ticket on a budget airline you would may well argue otherwise). It is certainly true that some subsidies have been gained via the military procurement/research route). Is proposing tariffs a good way of taxing aviation for Government's requiring revenue, particularly as the idea comes from within the industry itself?
A lot of airfares are sold at marginal cost, that is a very low rate. (This is particularly true where there are low fixed charges such as taxes and airport passenger charges.) Could you argue that offering low fares is dumping? Well an economist who understands marginal costing would disagree and it they are popular with passengers, but it is exactly the same argument. Think of fares prior to deregulation - and bucket shops, dubious affinity charters and the like.
The problem, particularly in America but unfortunately spreading globally, is that the game isn't just producing a better product more efficiently but using other means such as legal action to secure an advantage often against agile competitors. Trump, before he became President, was the classic example of this. I really hope that everything blows over and that tariffs are imposed because the loser will be aviation industry.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Schiphol
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BBC reports an additional 80% today.
Further tariff of 80% imposed on import of C-Series plane - BBC News
Further tariff of 80% imposed on import of C-Series plane - BBC News
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a major reason why Canadian federal and provincial government assistance to Bombardier has been highly controversial in Canada. Like the B787, the C-Series is a global product. I think Boeing's strategy really is to force Bombardier to sell out to Boeing, which in the past has owned a major chunk of what is now in Bombardier. Boeing's chances of succeeding are very good, given the current NAFTA situation, especially if it allows the Liberals in Canada to drop a hot potato while facing a resurgent Conservative Party. Obviously all tariffs will vanish once Boeing succeeds. The C-Series and its future developments will fill out the bottom of the narrow-body market, while the 797 fills out the "mid-market". Say bye-bye to the 737 and its limitations.
I am sure that 90% is not manufacturered in Canada anyways.
Unlike the Canadian automotive industry where it's largely 'build-to-print' with minimal local IP content.
Surely this is mostly a shot across the bow aimed at China.
Canada is a convenient 'whipping boy' target, there are plenty of US/Canada back channels to ensure that the right message is received there.
What matters is that other countries now have to factor in possibly insane tariffs when considering commercial aviation ventures.
Canada is a convenient 'whipping boy' target, there are plenty of US/Canada back channels to ensure that the right message is received there.
What matters is that other countries now have to factor in possibly insane tariffs when considering commercial aviation ventures.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida and wherever my laptop is
Posts: 1,350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A lot of airfares are sold at marginal cost, that is a very low rate. (This is particularly true where there are low fixed charges such as taxes and airport passenger charges.) Could you argue that offering low fares is dumping? Well an economist who understands marginal costing would disagree and it they are popular with passengers, but it is exactly the same argument. Think of fares prior to deregulation - and bucket shops, dubious affinity charters and the like.