Lap top and tablet ban
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Of course, this conveniently forgets about US born citizens such as Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma), Ted Kaczynski (Unabomber), whoever it was that was posting anthrax here there and everywhere a while back, Eric Rudolph (bombed abortion clinics and the Atlanta Olympics), Tom Manning / Jaan Laaman (left wing crazies from the 1970s), the Wall Street bombing in 1920; not to mention those members of American society who were quite cheerfully stumping up cash and arms for terrorists in Northern Ireland, the regular mass shootings that occur in schools, cinemas, etc, or the many daily attempts by passengers to smuggle firearms in hand luggage on domestic flights.
Terrorists 'win' by having a big negative impact on society, the more global the better. The imposition of overly burdonsome security restrictions is a goal they are very happy to bring about, it makes them feel like they're in charge of events.
Here in the UK we can tell that security arrangements on flights to the US, and Trump in general, is having a negative impact on the US. Disneyland Florida is doing a lot of advertising over here, seems no-one wants to go there anymore. The number of people looking to travel to the US for their post-grad education has dropped 60%. Ban laptops and a lot of business people will simply stop going there too.
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It's not just the ban on devices in the cabin, it's also the knowledge that DHC can sieze said device, and demand logins and passwords for whatever purpose they wish.
Of course there are some fairly simple work arounds, well known to the black hats, but the intent behind all this crap is to be seen as doing something. The fact that the something won't work and only serves to penalise the innocent, is irrelevant.
Of course there are some fairly simple work arounds, well known to the black hats, but the intent behind all this crap is to be seen as doing something. The fact that the something won't work and only serves to penalise the innocent, is irrelevant.
Article in today's Sunday Times, which seemed to have some elements of a "planted" story, indicated that 10 Downing Street, from their contacts with the USA, is to the fore on this rather than the DfT, and it is a now question of when rather than if.
I do hope that, if introduced, airlines (or the UK/EU governments) make it in both directions, otherwise it will be trumpeted as the US having "safer" citizens than Europe. For a country which had over 8,000 gun deaths in 2014 that is a joke.
I do hope that, if introduced, airlines (or the UK/EU governments) make it in both directions, otherwise it will be trumpeted as the US having "safer" citizens than Europe. For a country which had over 8,000 gun deaths in 2014 that is a joke.
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The main effects I can see are:
- Less business and tourist travel to the US.
- Higher costs for US based businesses, since they have to provide travel devices for both US-based and overseas-based employees*, and additional costs due to employee time spent preparing devices for travel. And more difficulty in finding foreign business partners due to all of the above.
As a non-american, I therefore support the ban, since it makes american competitors of my countries companies less competitive.
* My (US-based) organisation is already doing this, many employees are travelling without devices and/or wiped devices. And people are avoiding travel to the US. The in-cabin-laptop ban will probably just increase the proportion of employees travelling without devices to 100% (some don't mind the CBP too much, but do care about theft/damage in the hold).
- Less business and tourist travel to the US.
- Higher costs for US based businesses, since they have to provide travel devices for both US-based and overseas-based employees*, and additional costs due to employee time spent preparing devices for travel. And more difficulty in finding foreign business partners due to all of the above.
As a non-american, I therefore support the ban, since it makes american competitors of my countries companies less competitive.
* My (US-based) organisation is already doing this, many employees are travelling without devices and/or wiped devices. And people are avoiding travel to the US. The in-cabin-laptop ban will probably just increase the proportion of employees travelling without devices to 100% (some don't mind the CBP too much, but do care about theft/damage in the hold).
...you can carry your "whole world" on one of these - 200GBb is 50 bucks so why the hassle of carrying laptops any more? ...and if your info is precious/private these are a breeze to get by the snoop. I do this already, 2 machines - one on each side of the Pacific and I'm good to go...now its less work and more beer on the plane - life is good!!
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Triploss
As almost all journeys are return journeys, there will be a large impact on travel both ways. The impact could be sufficient to concern the yield managers. The ban appears to apply to almost everything from phablets upward that most pax carry. The regular traveler to the same place may be able to have bare bones or loaner devices at each end of the journey. Other travelers will abandon the travel.
As msbbarratt points out there are plenty of home grown and imported malcontents living in the USA, there are even more in Europe. Therefore, it makes no sense for this to be just an ban on international travel with electronics. Logically, if there is such a threat, then domestic flights should also have electronics banned.
The airlines should now make a more concerted attempt to alter the rather poorly thought out 'security' being imposed and start instead to move to the El Al pattern of real security checking the pax and identifying those who are a threat. A passenger who has several million miles on an airline flying similar flights several times a year to Europe or from New York to Seattle, is less likely to be a threat than a 25 year old making the 4th flight in a decade with the last flight a month previously to the Middle East.
Global Entry and other similar programs should be beefed up and offered as a security screening that will allow carriage of electronics. The current approach of just banning everything that _could_ be a threat is not workable in the long run - indeed it may just have hit its limiting level of acceptance.
The main effects I can see are:
- Less business and tourist travel to the US.
- Less business and tourist travel to the US.
As msbbarratt points out there are plenty of home grown and imported malcontents living in the USA, there are even more in Europe. Therefore, it makes no sense for this to be just an ban on international travel with electronics. Logically, if there is such a threat, then domestic flights should also have electronics banned.
The airlines should now make a more concerted attempt to alter the rather poorly thought out 'security' being imposed and start instead to move to the El Al pattern of real security checking the pax and identifying those who are a threat. A passenger who has several million miles on an airline flying similar flights several times a year to Europe or from New York to Seattle, is less likely to be a threat than a 25 year old making the 4th flight in a decade with the last flight a month previously to the Middle East.
Global Entry and other similar programs should be beefed up and offered as a security screening that will allow carriage of electronics. The current approach of just banning everything that _could_ be a threat is not workable in the long run - indeed it may just have hit its limiting level of acceptance.
Last edited by Ian W; 14th May 2017 at 18:58. Reason: correction
Join Date: Dec 2006
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"nothing bigger than 16cm (6.3ins) long, 9.3cm (3.6ins) wide or 1.5cm (0.6ins) deep will be allowed into the cabin - which means mobiles like the larger iPhone Plus will still be allowed."
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The price of a cheap laptop is small compared with many lon-haul airfares, so might we see some people buying one on arrival and abandoning it on departure.
Data on a memory stick or SD card, along with copies of necessary software. On departure, uninstall any software that needed a licence, transfer modified data to the memory stick, and use ransomware techniques to encrypt everything on the hard disk. Then abandon the throw-away laptop.
Of course, if one just dumps it in a public place, that might upset the physical security people and cause them to disrupt normal activities whilst they blow it up.
Data on a memory stick or SD card, along with copies of necessary software. On departure, uninstall any software that needed a licence, transfer modified data to the memory stick, and use ransomware techniques to encrypt everything on the hard disk. Then abandon the throw-away laptop.
Of course, if one just dumps it in a public place, that might upset the physical security people and cause them to disrupt normal activities whilst they blow it up.
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I have to wonder - if/when one of these laptop batteries melts down in the cargo compartment and causes a disaster, does Homeland Security get sued? Exchanging a possible threat for a known danger certainly sounds sue-worthy, and I can't see blaming the airline.
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Having been thinking about this issue & the data security aspects, my idea follows on from the discussion above.
1) Carry all data on a removable drive - HD or flash doesn't matter
2) Encrypt all data on the removable drive
3) This is where it takes the current proposal further. The encryption is done by the employers IT staff before the individual travels and it can only be unlocked after the traveller has arrived at their destination by either connecting to their employer's secure network or by remote unlocking by the IT department.
The person travelling will then not hold the password so cannot be forced to reveal it by any third party & the individuals holding the decryption code will be subject to the law of their country only.
1) Carry all data on a removable drive - HD or flash doesn't matter
2) Encrypt all data on the removable drive
3) This is where it takes the current proposal further. The encryption is done by the employers IT staff before the individual travels and it can only be unlocked after the traveller has arrived at their destination by either connecting to their employer's secure network or by remote unlocking by the IT department.
The person travelling will then not hold the password so cannot be forced to reveal it by any third party & the individuals holding the decryption code will be subject to the law of their country only.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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If you are concerned over access to data on your electronics, use one of the thin clients like ChromeBook or Windows 10S where all the processing is done "in the cloud" and all data is also held remotely "in the cloud". (That is in remote server farms.) The actual machine has only the base thin client operating system there is no data or applications carried on it even during use. Access to company cloud is by multi-level authentication.
Cost of a 'chromebook' is $200 or less.
These devices obviously will not operate unless connected to the cloud usually by encrypted VPN to the Internet.
Cost of a 'chromebook' is $200 or less.
These devices obviously will not operate unless connected to the cloud usually by encrypted VPN to the Internet.
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If you are concerned over access to data on your electronics, use one of the thin clients like ChromeBook or Windows 10S where all the processing is done "in the cloud" and all data is also held remotely "in the cloud". (That is in remote server farms.) The actual machine has only the base thin client operating system there is no data or applications carried on it even during use. Access to company cloud is by multi-level authentication.
Cost of a 'chromebook' is $200 or less.
These devices obviously will not operate unless connected to the cloud usually by encrypted VPN to the Internet.
Cost of a 'chromebook' is $200 or less.
These devices obviously will not operate unless connected to the cloud usually by encrypted VPN to the Internet.
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Sorry if this has already been answered, but what happens if you buy a laptop or ipad in the Duty Free shop in departures?. You have already gone through security so are you allowed to take those on the aircraft?
Join Date: May 2009
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If it's in the cloud the NSA likely knows about it. Probably 100% certain if the cloud server is physically in the US, or if it is a US company. If it is a 'secure non-US' server (if that even exists) then they will see the data when it's downloaded.
Perhaps the US constitution protects US citizens resident in the US, but others are not protected.
Perhaps the US constitution protects US citizens resident in the US, but others are not protected.
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There are times where it is not permitted to keep data in a "cloud" & if the individual is forced to handover their passwords, it doesn't matter where its kept. The key concept is that the individual keeps their confidential date in their possession at all times, but can only access it after it is unlocked by another party.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
The joy of being retired. My wife said before the election that if Tr**p won she wouldn't go to the US. With this latest, I agree with her. There are plenty of other places for us retired travellers to go. The US is going to see a downturn in traveller spending.
