EZY LGW-AMS pushed back onto grass
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Or-E-Gun, USA
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Air Heads?
I cannot believe some of the idiotic 'solutions' to this event that I've read in this thread. The authors simply cannot be professional pilots. Think it through a little bit... You're already off the tarmac and in the mud. The PIC has likely NOT seen the wheels, the tug routine did not work, you've still got a load of SLC in the back and some are suggesting to Power your way back onto the hard surface?: Say WHAT? I don't want to be anywhere near your airplane, ever. IMNHO, the ONLY acceptable response is as follows:
1. Make arrangements to get the SLC off and back to the terminal,
2. Shut it down and leave the aircraft, YOU are done for the day!
3. Recovery and damage inspection is for the Mx engineers alone.
OMG!!
1. Make arrangements to get the SLC off and back to the terminal,
2. Shut it down and leave the aircraft, YOU are done for the day!
3. Recovery and damage inspection is for the Mx engineers alone.
OMG!!
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I'm sure tyres can survive a small drop off a ledge if they can withstand landing forces. The main concern would be fore-aft strains on nose gear (strut assemblies, etc) if being towed or fore-aft strains on the main gear if being powered out.
Tyres. Quite!
Nose gear. The towbar fuse prevents this. Not a factor.
Main gear. Thank God landing gear isn't that weak or we'd have a collapse every time we landed or put on power against the brakes. Surely no one is suggesting that gear that repeatedly withstands the phenomenal forces of landing and emergency braking including landing with drift etc could possibly be damaged by power against brakes? How could full power engine runs ever occur if this was even remotely possible? (and before some expert pops up with only "but that's only one engine at a time" that results in the same forces on the main gear leg on that side - on a twin...). Anyway, no one has even remotely suggested using TOGA power to break out of the mud so this fanciful scenario is completely irrelevant.
Aircraft occasionally jump chocks - does that damage the gear? It may damage other things, wingtips, vehicles, laundry etc but not the gear.) And as this is achieved relatively easily under power why would/could motoring out of a similar sized (depth) depression in earth back onto the concrete damage anything?
I wouldn't want to power out of the mud, for at least two reasons - if you're in deep, how close are the intakes to the ground and are you going to ingest mud/stones? And if you're successful, your tyres will be shedding mud during the takeoff - where will it go and what damage will it do? Any mud left on the gear will freeze solid during the flight - what problems might it cause? Oh, and how will those very expensive brake packs fair with a dollop of mud inside them?
Powering out of the mud would be unwise and irresponsible IMHO.
Powering out of the mud would be unwise and irresponsible IMHO.
I'm sure that the captain would not have been contemplating using anything near TOGA power to get off the grass but to illustrate what can happen: Several years ago at Aberdeen a B734 came off the yellow centreline on lineup to maximise the TODA on the rather short runway. The pilot then held it on the brakes until take-off power was achieved before rolling, unaware that the thrust had dislodged some concrete from the threshold and removed around ten tons of earth and sod. Unfortunately this happened in the dark so the tower ATCO was unaware and the following aircraft didn't remark on what had happened until the B734 was almost airborne. The captain elected to continue to Gatwick even when an airfield inspection revealed a large, six foot deep hole at the end of the runway! On parking up at Gatwick, it was discovered that one side of the tailplane was badly damaged and half of the elevator on that side was missing. Amazingly the crew said the aircraft flew normally with no vibration etc, but it certainly was a lucky day for them and their pax.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...DOCT_06-07.pdf
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We had a Ten taxi one bogie off into soft grass but as he was still rolling a squirt of power brought him back on to hard stuff, if it had stopped, he wouldn't have got it out.
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Yes but it was hilarious.
People thinking you're going to destroy your aircraft by applying a slight thrust VS people thinking they can make a decision without even looking at their aircraft.
People thinking you're going to destroy your aircraft by applying a slight thrust VS people thinking they can make a decision without even looking at their aircraft.
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Surprised this thread has got so much attention!
Let's, for a moment, use something called "common sense", so, the rug pushes them onto the grass, it gets stuck, can't get out people on here are suggesting the CA should open the taps and "have a go" as there's "no harm in trying!" LUDICROUS!
So, imagine this, said CA opens the taps, a/c jumps the mud/grass, catapults forward at a rate of knots, smashes through the terminal glass and before he knows he's ordering a latte and croissant!
I'm sure management, the lessors, gatwick airport or Mr Insurance would mind because "he was having a go, and there was no harm in trying!"
Possibly the worst statement I've ever read on this site!
Let's, for a moment, use something called "common sense", so, the rug pushes them onto the grass, it gets stuck, can't get out people on here are suggesting the CA should open the taps and "have a go" as there's "no harm in trying!" LUDICROUS!
So, imagine this, said CA opens the taps, a/c jumps the mud/grass, catapults forward at a rate of knots, smashes through the terminal glass and before he knows he's ordering a latte and croissant!
I'm sure management, the lessors, gatwick airport or Mr Insurance would mind because "he was having a go, and there was no harm in trying!"
Possibly the worst statement I've ever read on this site!
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People thinking you're going to destroy your aircraft by applying a slight thrust VS people thinking they can make a decision without even looking at their aircraft.
Just shut down, get the pax off, and go home.
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Assess the need
There are some limited cases where it would be appropriate to attempt powering out of a bog. Unprotected military aircraft like a Caribou DHC4 under attack in a war zone would be one that I can think of. There might be lower levels of urgency where such action could be considered. IMHO, a problem pushback is not one of them.
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Dont know how they did it in this case but the usual method is to lighten the aircraft as a much as possible, dig out the earth in front of the wheels and lay out steel planking and then tow it out. Afterwards you wash off and carry out detailed inspections of the gear assembles.
The whole procedure is detailed in the Manufacturers Aircraft Recovery Document - if you choose not to follow that and damage the aircraft then your arse ends up in a sling.
The whole procedure is detailed in the Manufacturers Aircraft Recovery Document - if you choose not to follow that and damage the aircraft then your arse ends up in a sling.
