Indonesian Citylink Pilot
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This looks like footage of said Captain's negotiated removal from the flight deck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2syfWITeTY
It doesn't look like he's taking the suggestion well.
It doesn't look like he's taking the suggestion well.
This incident is going to live long in aviation folklore.
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As they say: First the man takes a drink.
Then the man takes another drink.
Then the drink takes a drink.
Then the drink takes the man.
It is nothing but sad to watch a human being destroy his career and possibly his family life.
Then the man takes another drink.
Then the drink takes a drink.
Then the drink takes the man.
It is nothing but sad to watch a human being destroy his career and possibly his family life.
Sad fact of flying in this part of the world is that there are a lot of rich daddies whose offspring did not do well in the academic sense... best course of action is get them a CPL and fast-track them into the LHS, voila.. my son is a "Captain".
Said offspring are typically hard partying chaps and booze and drugs are part of their scene... no problem as daddy is ever ready to bail them out.
Hard to imagine but in this part of the world there is not much of a General Aviation scene to supply pilots for the airlines. In the old days, the legacy carriers had their own cadet-ship programs, supported by some air-force pilots but due to the recent explosive expansions the easiest source for pilots are those who pay their way.
In the old days, the legacy carriers could pick the 'cream' of the school leavers, top scorers in O and A levels. Not so much now.. its more a case of meeting the minimum requirements, academically and professionally (as a pilot with CPL).
In this part of the world, the Captain is still God and most of the guys down the line know that they became captain because they had powerful friends...that's why they step carefully.
With regards to the F/O.. could it be that they were partying together? More than likely if they were away from base. That would explain the reluctance to say anything.
Said offspring are typically hard partying chaps and booze and drugs are part of their scene... no problem as daddy is ever ready to bail them out.
Hard to imagine but in this part of the world there is not much of a General Aviation scene to supply pilots for the airlines. In the old days, the legacy carriers had their own cadet-ship programs, supported by some air-force pilots but due to the recent explosive expansions the easiest source for pilots are those who pay their way.
In the old days, the legacy carriers could pick the 'cream' of the school leavers, top scorers in O and A levels. Not so much now.. its more a case of meeting the minimum requirements, academically and professionally (as a pilot with CPL).
In this part of the world, the Captain is still God and most of the guys down the line know that they became captain because they had powerful friends...that's why they step carefully.
With regards to the F/O.. could it be that they were partying together? More than likely if they were away from base. That would explain the reluctance to say anything.
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Anil , this is not the case with all the young captains out there that have worked hard and earned the maturity to pass a command course just like anybody else .
The bigger problem here is that the captain is clearly wasted and the ground staff is still treating him like a king .
The bigger problem here is that the captain is clearly wasted and the ground staff is still treating him like a king .
pfyspnf.
I agree that there are good and bad..but in some places money and influence goes a long way...hopefully the bag of experience gets filled before the bag of luck empties.
I agree that there are good and bad..but in some places money and influence goes a long way...hopefully the bag of experience gets filled before the bag of luck empties.
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Pilot cleared from substance abuse
In a twist, the Citilink pilot has been cleared of any alcohol / drug use.
After the initial negative test taken right after the incident (as reported earlier), blood samples were sent to a state lab for a second test, which also came back negative.
Then the pilot was subjected to an extensive 2-day physical, toxicological and psychological tests at Indonesia's National Narcotics Agency (BNN). Test samples from blood, urine and hair all came back negative.
Psychological testing did reveal some anomalies, including depression.
The pilot's license and flight medical were revoked earlier -- in part based on alleged procedural violations -- and will not be reinstated.
After the initial negative test taken right after the incident (as reported earlier), blood samples were sent to a state lab for a second test, which also came back negative.
Then the pilot was subjected to an extensive 2-day physical, toxicological and psychological tests at Indonesia's National Narcotics Agency (BNN). Test samples from blood, urine and hair all came back negative.
Psychological testing did reveal some anomalies, including depression.
The pilot's license and flight medical were revoked earlier -- in part based on alleged procedural violations -- and will not be reinstated.
... not terribly surprised
Far be it for me to infer anything about this incident - I was not there.
However I will be in SUB in a couple of weeks and I am keen to ask a few locals what they think of this finding.
Please have a read of my previous posts (#8 and #26, I think) and see if you can spot any of the aforementioned characteristics in this outcome.
Anyway, it's nice to see that the pilot concerned has a ray of hope to cling to and that the airline executives will be able to cancel their offers of resignation.
If it quacks like a duck ....
However I will be in SUB in a couple of weeks and I am keen to ask a few locals what they think of this finding.
Please have a read of my previous posts (#8 and #26, I think) and see if you can spot any of the aforementioned characteristics in this outcome.
Anyway, it's nice to see that the pilot concerned has a ray of hope to cling to and that the airline executives will be able to cancel their offers of resignation.
If it quacks like a duck ....
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I don't think so, at least as far as the pilot's is concerned. His license will not be reinstated (rightly or wrongly) and either way his career is finished.
Even though the pilot has been cleared of substance abuse, he's still on the hook for alleged CASR violations and it looks like the (new) Minister of Transport is eager to make examples out both the pilot and Citilink for these violations.
The Citilink Board of Directors will make a decision on the exec resignations within 30 days. My guess is the damage has been done and the CEO will not be able to continue. I'm sure there are other execs within Citilink and/or Garuda who are now lobbying to take on the job. Of course, in Indonesia, anything can happen...
Even though the pilot has been cleared of substance abuse, he's still on the hook for alleged CASR violations and it looks like the (new) Minister of Transport is eager to make examples out both the pilot and Citilink for these violations.
The Citilink Board of Directors will make a decision on the exec resignations within 30 days. My guess is the damage has been done and the CEO will not be able to continue. I'm sure there are other execs within Citilink and/or Garuda who are now lobbying to take on the job. Of course, in Indonesia, anything can happen...
Yes, newspapers reporting that licence pulled permanently because testing indicated that the mental and physical health of the pilot was found to be unstable.
Some papers making reference to use of "Gorilla Tobacco" but seems more like rumour mill at this stage.
The substance (mentioned as being AB-CHMINACA) seems to be a synthetic cannabinoid and is currently on a list of substances, in Indonesia, being evaluated for possible listing as a narcotic.
One thing about Indonesia, the truth will probably come out eventually, even if not fully verified.
Originally Posted by Detiknews & BNN
Pencabutan izin terbang Tekad tersebut dilakukan karena hasil tes Balai Kesehatan Penerbangan Kemenhub menyatakan kondisi Kapten Tekad tidak stabil secara kesehatan jiwa dan fisik.
The substance (mentioned as being AB-CHMINACA) seems to be a synthetic cannabinoid and is currently on a list of substances, in Indonesia, being evaluated for possible listing as a narcotic.
One thing about Indonesia, the truth will probably come out eventually, even if not fully verified.
Last edited by WingNut60; 10th Jan 2017 at 14:34.
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When I first saw the video clip of the pilot at the security point, I drew on my years of intensive self-education regarding the effects of illicit herbs and deduced that he was as high as a kite.
This rumour fits in with my deduction quite nicely. Experience counts! 
Some papers making reference to use of "Gorilla Tobacco" but seems more like rumour mill at this stage.
The substance (mentioned as being AB-CHMINACA) seems to be a synthetic cannabinoid and is currently on a list of substances, in Indonesia, being evaluated for possible listing as a narcotic.
The substance (mentioned as being AB-CHMINACA) seems to be a synthetic cannabinoid and is currently on a list of substances, in Indonesia, being evaluated for possible listing as a narcotic.
I agree. And so did more than 70 passengers down the back, if previous reports are correct.
In the video he shows all the common signs of (severe) intoxication.
However latest clarification from BNN (National Narcotics Agency) says that there were no indications of use of "Gorilla" contrary to circulating rumours.
So if it wasn't caused by a narcotic or an intoxicant, what was it that could cause a person to display such severe symptoms but only temporarily?
The pilot was simply found unfit for duty as defined by regulation CASR 67.
There is mention that he was found to be depressed, however my logic processes make me suspect that that may have arisen after the incident, not before.
And, unless I am mistaken, the downer after the high is a well known feature of many narcotic / stimulants.
I'd be interested to know how many plates of nasi goreng he consumed while undergoing examination. Do you know what I'm saying here, gents?
In the video he shows all the common signs of (severe) intoxication.
However latest clarification from BNN (National Narcotics Agency) says that there were no indications of use of "Gorilla" contrary to circulating rumours.
BNN Komisaris Besar Slamet Pribadi - Slamet juga mengatakan Tekad Purna tak terbukti menggunakan narkotika jenis Gorilla atau AB-CHMINACA seperti rumor yang beredar. Zat yang mengandung ganja sintetis tersebut bisa dideteksi melalui uji laboratorium. "Berdasarkan hasil pemeriksaan, tidak ada zat yang mengindikasi dia memakai narkotik," kata Slamet.
The pilot was simply found unfit for duty as defined by regulation CASR 67.
There is mention that he was found to be depressed, however my logic processes make me suspect that that may have arisen after the incident, not before.
And, unless I am mistaken, the downer after the high is a well known feature of many narcotic / stimulants.
I'd be interested to know how many plates of nasi goreng he consumed while undergoing examination. Do you know what I'm saying here, gents?
Selain diperiksa BNN, Tekad Purna juga diperiksa di Balai Kesehatan Penerbangan pada 28 dan 30 Desember 2016. "Hasilnya menunjukkan Tekad Purna dalam kondisi unfit," kata Direktur Kelaiakudaraan dan Pengoperasian Pesawat Udara (DKUPPU), Ditjen Perhubungan Udara, Kemenhub, Muzaffar Ismail.
Kepala Balai Kesehatan Penerbangan Medianto mendefinisikan kondisi unfit dengan, "personil penerbangan tidak memenuhi persyaratan yang tercantum dalam CASR 67." CASR kependekan dari Civil Aviation Safety Regulations atau Peraturan Keselamatan Penerbangan Sipil.Â
Kepala Balai Kesehatan Penerbangan Medianto mendefinisikan kondisi unfit dengan, "personil penerbangan tidak memenuhi persyaratan yang tercantum dalam CASR 67." CASR kependekan dari Civil Aviation Safety Regulations atau Peraturan Keselamatan Penerbangan Sipil.Â
Last edited by WingNut60; 11th Jan 2017 at 01:43.
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There are actually quite a few diseases or afflictions that can mimic drunkenness or "being high" (Diabetes, Wilson's Disease and Ataxia to name just three). I have a friend in this business who started showing ataxia symptoms in his 40's. If this poor chap at Citilink recently developed ataxia it could account exactly for the displayed behaviour. I'm not saying I think it's the case but I certainly think it's a likely as "Gorilla tobacco". And yes, as you can tell from my pprune handle, I'm very familiar with Indonesia.
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It could also be a side effect of "roofie" or Rohypnol. It very much looks like someone who is drunk. It wouldn't be the first time air crew were slipped this drug by nefarious people. It also offers a kind of temporary anmensia to the details leading up to the time of intoxication.
I'll try to avoid the guessing game as much as possible, but whatever the cause it would need to have included:
a) sudden onset. I would presume that he was not in that state the previous evening
b) not apparent to sufferer / victim. I also presume that despite all else, he still felt fine
c) not detectable through drug and alcohol testing
Try applying those filters to ataxia, diabetes (?? - and still pass your medical), Wilson's or Rohypnol
a) sudden onset. I would presume that he was not in that state the previous evening
b) not apparent to sufferer / victim. I also presume that despite all else, he still felt fine
c) not detectable through drug and alcohol testing
Try applying those filters to ataxia, diabetes (?? - and still pass your medical), Wilson's or Rohypnol
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There are many neurological or psychiatric conditions which could exhibit the same symptoms -- confusion, talking in gibberish ("word salad"), hallucinations, etc. -- which by the way are all symptoms of schizophrenia. Post-even depression is also common with schizophrenics.
Sometimes there are also brief disorders with unclear causes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brief_psychotic_disorder
Sometimes there are also brief disorders with unclear causes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brief_psychotic_disorder
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There are indeed many medical or neurological or psychiatric conditions which could exhibit the same symptoms as others have posted earlier in this thread and some can be indistinguishable from intoxication at point of presentation. The classic one is of course hypoglycaemia (low blood sugar) in diabetes- many a custody sergeant has fallen foul of arresting someone for being drunk and disorderly only to find them dying in the cell from hypoglycaemic coma. Will be watching this thread with interest to see how it unfolds.
Of course there are medical reasons. Whereas carabinoids and benzodiazepines (eg rohypnol) are detectable for ages afterwards and very easily byr the most hamfisted lab. I know this is a rumour board, but this poor guy has been ridiculed around the world, accused of being drunk, and unless you are really claiming someone falsified the results and the lab(s) allowed this to happen, you are being highly disingenuous to a fellow pilot.
I do not know what this part of the world is like, but where is the evidence of foul play? Surely the issue is that this poor pilot has had his career removed without, it appears, a diagnosis. If he has been told he cant get his medical reinstated when we dont even have a cause then I would have thought there might be a teeny bit of outrage amongst his peers....
I do not know what this part of the world is like, but where is the evidence of foul play? Surely the issue is that this poor pilot has had his career removed without, it appears, a diagnosis. If he has been told he cant get his medical reinstated when we dont even have a cause then I would have thought there might be a teeny bit of outrage amongst his peers....
There is certainly now, sufficient credible information to place this incident in the realm of "reasonable doubt".
It is incumbent on neither the employer, BNN nor anyone else to reveal the true nature of his problem.
Quite the contrary, in fact. He is entitled to confidentiality regarding any genuine medical problems.
However, having extended the benefit of doubt, some questions remain.
For instance, how did he get into this situation in the first place?
Was it a known, pre-existing condition (there is / was an earlier post asserting that he had lost his position with a previous employer following a similar incident)?
Had he been concealing a condition known only to him?
I still find it strange that the Citilink executives fell so quickly onto their swords, and apparently remain impaled there, unless there is some other factor that is not being aired in public.
The possibility that comes to my mind is that the pilot had been hired under protection of those executives even though he had known problems. This is not a rumour; just wondering.
It is incumbent on neither the employer, BNN nor anyone else to reveal the true nature of his problem.
Quite the contrary, in fact. He is entitled to confidentiality regarding any genuine medical problems.
However, having extended the benefit of doubt, some questions remain.
For instance, how did he get into this situation in the first place?
Was it a known, pre-existing condition (there is / was an earlier post asserting that he had lost his position with a previous employer following a similar incident)?
Had he been concealing a condition known only to him?
I still find it strange that the Citilink executives fell so quickly onto their swords, and apparently remain impaled there, unless there is some other factor that is not being aired in public.
The possibility that comes to my mind is that the pilot had been hired under protection of those executives even though he had known problems. This is not a rumour; just wondering.
Further information - as reported in Tribun Timur newspaper
Age 32. Began his career with Air Asia Indonesia in 2009.
A pilot who claimed to know him well reported that he is a competent pilot and had shown no signs of strange behaviour while working as FO with Air Asia.
However he started "acting up" after being promoted to captain in late 2015.
REPORTED (not verified) that he was dismissed from Air Asia following an incident in which the cabin crew noticed him behaving in an unusual manner.
They reported his behaviour to the safety director and to operational control and the flight was stopped.
After checking on-board the aircraft it was determined (sic) that he had been using some unidentified psychotropic substance.
He had accumulated 4888 flying hours with Air Asia and had racked up a further 656 hrs with Citilink after joining them in March 2016.
Following the incident in Surabaya his employment with Citilink was initially suspended and then terminated.
The assistant director of communications for Citilink reported that the pilot had contravened fundamental conditions of employment "so no need to wait for the results of the investigation to take a decision".
But the three main areas of transgression were :
1. Compromising flight safety
2. Reporting late for duty
3. Bringing the company into disrepute.
Age 32. Began his career with Air Asia Indonesia in 2009.
A pilot who claimed to know him well reported that he is a competent pilot and had shown no signs of strange behaviour while working as FO with Air Asia.
However he started "acting up" after being promoted to captain in late 2015.
Di kalangan teman-temannya sesama pilot Air Asia, Tekad dikenal baik dan tidak bertingkah yang aneh-aneh. Dia baru mulai berulah saat pangkatnya naik menjadi kapten di akhir tahun 2015 lalu.
They reported his behaviour to the safety director and to operational control and the flight was stopped.
After checking on-board the aircraft it was determined (sic) that he had been using some unidentified psychotropic substance.
He had accumulated 4888 flying hours with Air Asia and had racked up a further 656 hrs with Citilink after joining them in March 2016.
Following the incident in Surabaya his employment with Citilink was initially suspended and then terminated.
The assistant director of communications for Citilink reported that the pilot had contravened fundamental conditions of employment "so no need to wait for the results of the investigation to take a decision".
But the three main areas of transgression were :
1. Compromising flight safety
2. Reporting late for duty
3. Bringing the company into disrepute.