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Croatia Airlines VP fltops suspended over leaving the F/O alone in the cockpit

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Croatia Airlines VP fltops suspended over leaving the F/O alone in the cockpit

Old 17th Nov 2016, 14:35
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe the captain went to the bathroom? (Yawn).
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 14:59
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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.....as for social media posting things from the cockpit
Take a look at this instagram "stream" from the me me me generation of snowflakes.
https://www.instagram.com/pilotmaria/
All I expect are photoshopped, the aspect ratios squashed to make everyone appear slimmer and accompanied by a the usual rictus grin.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 15:39
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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It's been said before, never, ever leave one pilot alone on the flightdeck. Many airlines insist that a member of cabin crew go in there. And before anyone asks "what could they do, they aren't qualified pilots?" the answer is: open the door.
Well I know of one Big Airline that allows one pilot alone on the flight deck - what are they missing?
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 15:53
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"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

- Attributed to Socrates.

Last edited by Tu.114; 21st Nov 2016 at 14:26.
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Old 18th Nov 2016, 13:08
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On a recent flight on an eastern european airline, I did observe one of the cockpit crew leave the cockpit, visit the bathroom, grab some refreshments, and return to the cockpit. No cabin crew entered the cockpit at that point (except while on the ground), it didn't look like there was any further cockpit personnel.

However it also looked like the door didn't have a lock, unlike most other aircraft I've seen recently. Or at least the lock wasn't being used if present.

I wasn't particularly concerned, however I had been under the impression there was a fairly firm rule about having at least two people in the cockpit at any time, at least in Europe (I imagine that's unnecessary with an unlocked cockpit though).
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Old 18th Nov 2016, 13:24
  #26 (permalink)  
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No such rule.
 
Old 19th Nov 2016, 09:17
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Would this be the "entitled" generation who will be funding your retirement? The generation which will not be getting one themselves as the Ponzi scheme breaks? The generation who will not be able to buy their own homes? The generation that leaves university with massive debt and didn't get grants? The generation who have had to pay for all their own training because the older pilots never stood up to the airlines and stopped them creating multi tier pay schemes? The generation who has had most of the fun sucked out of the world by previous generations?

Is that the generation you are talking about?
Blimey Canute, calm down mate.

You are reading an attitude into my post that was not there. I was not having a go at this generation, nor was I judging them, but simply trying to understand why the "youth of today" (including my own son and almost all cabin crew) are so obsessed by their smartphones. Just idle curiosity and a bit of amateur psychology.

Having said that, the actions of the F/O in this thread are very questionable - there is a time and place, and this wasn't it.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 10:02
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I thought that after the Eurowings suicide crash the '2 in the cockpit' rule was more common. It was some of my previous airlines. We were not told it was a company initiative; we assumed it was an EASA thing. Now you're saying it is not an EU rule. What is the rule in other XAA regions?
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 10:33
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EASA SIB is a recommendation to operators, not a mandatory requirement.


http://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/EASA_S.../SIB_2016-09_1
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 11:16
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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RAT

we assumed it was an EASA thing. Now you're saying it is not an EU rule.

It's that old chestnut again...

As Dufo has rightly pointed out this subject is covered by an EASA SIB on the subject and the devil is in the wording/detail of said document - regardless of whether you read it as a rule or a recommendation it gives options for compliance with the intent. Many operators have decided to comply by having a two up front rule (written into their Ops Manual), others are employ prefectly legitimate alternative means of complying with the SIB.....

In short, under EASA there isn't a blanket "there must be two people in the cockpit at all times" rule..

Last edited by wiggy; 19th Nov 2016 at 11:32.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 11:31
  #31 (permalink)  
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This EASA recommendation was just a reaction after Germanwings that they are doing something. It was/is more for general public/passengers than for anything else.
How do you want to enforce this for 2 crews aircraft Cargo operators to start with ?
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 12:20
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Cargo aircraft are a different set of rules for obvious reasons. The point is if your operating manual says two people at all times then those are the rules. If you are the ops director it looks bad if you are filmed breaking your own sops, however sensible or not they may be. Does anyone know if it is in the OM at Croatia?....that would be interesting to know.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 14:11
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Would this be the "entitled" generation who will be funding your retirement? The generation which will not be getting one themselves as the Ponzi scheme breaks? The generation who will not be able to buy their own homes? The generation that leaves university with massive debt and didn't get grants? The generation who have had to pay for all their own training because the older pilots never stood up to the airlines and stopped them creating multi tier pay schemes? The generation who has had most of the fun sucked out of the world by previous generations?
Exactly the generation that was brought into the world by the previous, who had the dubious honor of funding saids generations upbringing and education. The generation that thinks it is entitled to more of everything than anyone else, the generation that pays gladly for their training with dads money, the generation that never stood up to anything and anyone, because they never got the message, as they forgot to load the correct app. The generation that cannot spell the word union...
The generation that is always high, drunk, and getting holidays abroad paid for by mum.

Donīt you dare to think you are the only one who can trivialize and over-simplify...
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 15:52
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.
I have found this modest proposal quite appropriate for the aforementioned problem:
https://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Texts/modest.html
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 19:06
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Well, that's a real a first class idiot who hopefully won't be flying again. Brand new FO recording a video under those circumstances and posting it on facebook? Extremely poor judgement and a total lack of professionalism.

Can anyone translate what he's saying?
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 20:39
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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New interview question: "would you consider using social photo media during duty hours?"

Yes = F.O. No = move to next phase.

Last edited by RAT 5; 20th Nov 2016 at 09:42.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 21:07
  #37 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
The issue is also a management reacting to a post of Facebook and following the media hype, by (apparently ) sanctioning the Captain of that flight, while the real one that would need to be disciplined is the F/O taking that video and releasing it to the public.
Way around, rumours about investigation started two days before "media hype".

Provided video is real and not forgery used by dark forces to defame the glorious captain whose shining examples of aeronautical & managerial excellence throughout his career should be followed by any Croatian airline pilot, commander can be easily found in breach of security procedure (yes, CTN does require FA to be in cockpit when one of the pilots takes physiological break). With F/O might be a bit different; it seems there are no explicit rules about using video equipment on CTN's flightdecks and besides, he is not just OU employee but also a paying client.

Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
This EASA recommendation was just a reaction after Germanwings that they are doing something. It was/is more for general public/passengers than for anything else.
Correct, yet some airlines chose to implement "never leave the pilot alone on the flightdeck" policy.
Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
How do you want to enforce this for 2 crews aircraft Cargo operators to start with ?
It's about caring (or rather pretending to care) about passengers. Since there are none on the cargo flights - N/A.

Probably the unlucky capt is cursing hard the management guy whose brilliant cost-saving idea was to bring P2F into CTN.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 23:39
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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it seems there are no explicit rules about using video equipment on CTN's flightdecks
When my old airline installed a temporary video camera on the glareshield for Antarctic sightseeing flights, I believe we had to prove things like the camera electronics didn't interfere with the aircraft electronics and that the whiskey compass wasn't affected. Our company also stipulated that photographic material intended by public viewing be vetted by the airline first (i.e. in case cockpit security was put at risk and in case the company was put in a bad light).

I've noticed that a lot of these videos are being taken by cameras stuck to the side windows. Surely anything which impedes vision can't be legal?

How secure are the feet on these cameras? Are they likely to detach during turbulence or an accident, hitting pilots or damaging aircraft equipment?
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Old 20th Nov 2016, 02:35
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Not a problem. A non-issue. Nothing to see here. Walk away. Shut this tread down. Unless of course you are a lawyer..
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Old 20th Nov 2016, 07:35
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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I've noticed that a lot of these videos are being taken by cameras stuck to the side windows. Surely anything which impedes vision can't be legal?
Well, our CAA approbed my company to stick our iPad EFBs into the sidewindow with a suction RAM mount. Of course it blocks a certain area, depending on how each pilot uses it, and is much larger than those mini action cams most use nowadays. And yes, the mount, if used correctly, is safe in turbulences.
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