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Croatia Airlines VP fltops suspended over leaving the F/O alone in the cockpit

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Croatia Airlines VP fltops suspended over leaving the F/O alone in the cockpit

Old 16th Nov 2016, 21:52
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Croatia Airlines VP fltops suspended over leaving the F/O alone in the cockpit

A few news outlets in Croatia are reporting today that Croatia Airlines vice president for flight ops (incidentally a TRE) got suspended over security breach; allegedly he left the F/O alone in the cockpit in cruise. Incident was discovered when said F/O posted the video on f-book.

It is unclear whether this happened during line training or our effoh hero with camera had already been line released, yet it is pretty certain he was part of P2F program, paying 35 000 for type rating and 500 hrs of aeroplane time, while being paid Croatia's minimum wage.
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Old 16th Nov 2016, 22:02
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And not concentrating but posing for a camera while alone on the FD is okay ?

What a weird world...
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 00:02
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Sounds like a pretty sure fire way to "not" have your P2F contract extended. . . .
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 03:45
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What am I missing here?

If there were only two pilots in the cockpit, then the F/O obviously had been released to line - or at the very least, the TRE had released the safety pilot - and therefore this F/O could be left alone in the cockpit if the Captain needed a pee.

That said, it is the height of stupidity for an F/O so new and inexperienced to behave in this way.

In our airline we have seen cadets texting on their mobiles during SIM training and Line training - I kid you not.

Where has this slack attitude come from? Unlike dinosaurs like me, I suppose that the cadets coming through now are the first generation to have had mobile phones and tablet computers from a very very early age, (I got my first mobile phone aged 35ish), so they probably don't see anything wrong with using one constantly, and the fact that it is highly inappropriate and dangerous probably doesn't even occur to them.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 05:13
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uplink,

No need to make excuses, the latest generation of entitlement pervades all.
Someone else will always be at fault, not them, hence the prevailing attitude.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 05:20
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Would this be the "entitled" generation who will be funding your retirement? The generation which will not be getting one themselves as the Ponzi scheme breaks? The generation who will not be able to buy their own homes? The generation that leaves university with massive debt and didn't get grants? The generation who have had to pay for all their own training because the older pilots never stood up to the airlines and stopped them creating multi tier pay schemes? The generation who has had most of the fun sucked out of the world by previous generations?

Is that the generation you are talking about?
 
Old 17th Nov 2016, 06:42
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We have what they pay for

"....who will be funding your retirement?". I don't know but tend to doubt that, better take care of that by yourself and put something aside - if you can.

But you are right, maybe in little different way than you try to bring it to us:

Now we have what they pay for. And it will get worse.

Watching this and instantly thinking of the 121.50-Tarzans, Burpers and other Clowns, I sometimes get the feeling it's not too wrong to have them guarded - not safety wise, but a little babysitting until they finally grow up. Without burning down the house.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 06:44
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The issue seems to be that OU has subscribed to "never leave a pilot alone in the flightdeck" policy after the Germanwings catastrophe.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 06:51
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I think you're talking about the generation that's started out during the modern era of ferocious competition and ultra low ticket prices...

Back in the day when there were fewer airlines and flying anywhere cost $$$$s and passengers were grateful to simply get their in one piece never mind the lack of lemon scented towelletes, it was possible to pay handsome salaries and lavish extensive training, etc.

The only reason one has to pay to be trained these days is because there's people willing to pay the fee. Personally speaking I think this means that piloting is a questionable career choice for youngsters these days. Compared to careers like electronics engineering where there's a dire shortage of good people, recommending flying sounds like poor careers advice.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 06:58
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Of course this is the "issue". But safety-wise this procedure is a placebo and we all know that it is in place to lead the public to believe that everything is fine. Same shit like to banish liquids. All part of the show. So as pilots we could focus on the story behind the story. If we like to.

And yes, this job is dead. It might end like the poor guys from eastern europe living in their truck or like the Filipinos beeing exploited across the seven seas.....
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 07:04
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The issue is also a management reacting to a post of Facebook and following the media hype, by (apparently ) sanctioning the Captain of that flight, while the real one that would need to be disciplined is the F/O taking that video and releasing it to the public.
In my world, and in most ATC units , Smartphones and tablets are banned from Ops rooms and taking photos/video strictly prohibited, and posting them on Internet or given to media ( same thing) would lead to serious disciplinary action . It it not what you filmed, it is about who took the shots.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 07:29
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As one of these new entitled cadets people are talking about, yeah my generation do think its normal to have a phone on them all the time. A big problem is sharing and documenting every second of their lives.

I've had friends get in serious trouble for posting things to Facebook without the company's permission, it's simply not worth it. Its a shame here that the Captain is getting in trouble when leaving an FO alone in cruise shouldn't be a big deal, its not a regulation or a standard.

On extensive training costs however, have a go at the guys our age paying to fly on their parents money. The only reason the training is so expensive is because people are willing to pay it. Its a total shame as well that it prices out those potential great, professional pilots who arent born wealthy.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 08:16
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Must be more to this as surely any pilot is allowed a short break for physiological reasons. Or will all aircraft be fitted with pee tubes & I guess a bucket for "emergencies"
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 08:29
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And yes, this job is dead. It might end like the poor guys from eastern europe living in their truck or like the Filipinos beeing exploited across the seven seas.....
A million years ago, it seems, I remember one of my early Captains suggesting that the Airline Pilot would go the way of the Royal Scot express train driver.

He explained that the early express train drivers were the cream of the cream amongst wage earners, people geneflucted towards them, rushed to smooth their path, paid them unbelievably high wages for the time, etc. but look at them now, he said, they creep aboard in greasy overalls carrying their lunch in a little aluminium tin and nobody really cares what they do, although the responsibility for their passengers hasn't diminished.

Strangely prophetic, sadly.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 08:48
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Sounds like the VP flt ops suspended himself. Reminds me of the BOAC 707 fleet manager writing himself a warning letter after a pod strike at Kai Tak. In this case a short suspension seems reasonable given he appears to have disregarded his own rules and is also responsable for the employment of this FO, who manifestly lacks the kind of decision making capability required for the job. My money is on the VP flt ops returning to flying....the FO is unlikely to get a glowing reference and rightly so. By the way Speedbird I think you are a bit out of touch with railwaymen pay. It is actually not at all bad, particularly when you factor in training costs etc.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 09:02
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but look at them now, he said, they creep aboard in greasy overalls carrying their lunch in a little aluminium tin and nobody really cares what they do, although the responsibility for their passengers hasn't diminished

so what you mean is the glamour is gone now and the day of the skygod is over?
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 10:47
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strictly prohibited, and posting them on Internet or given to media ( same thing) would lead to serious disciplinary action

I agree, if it is prescribed on adequate paper...If it is not, than it is not priohibited.


I saw at least 10 pilots of Croatia Airlines (Air Serbia as well,etc ) who has FB/Linkedin profile pictures from cockpit,plus dayli update of new pictures, even I know buch of stewardess in a same way ....


so I would not dare to say that taking photo from cockpit is prohibited.


rather I would say,


Croatia Airlines vice president for flight ops
someone esle wanted that post, and since new minister taking over cabinet recently.....


and of course, poor young pilot


he was part of P2F program, paying 35 000 € for type rating

If he pays for that in Croatia, than he is "not well connected", and anyhow he will not received that job after payment is finished.


generic safety, security ( we have different approach to that issues than US lead World) , Quality, and Balkans, can't be one sentence.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 12:01
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Not sure why this is an issue, normal operations would allow one pilot to leave for a comfort break. Two things I have concerns over, one the FO posting a video and secondly why has he not put on the oxygen mask when the captain leaves the cockpit. I thought that was a SOP requirement.

Sadly the captain is going to get a kicking and the FO will not have his contract renewed.

Well this proves you can't teach common sense... shame.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 12:12
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O2-mask: not under European law.
Alone on the flight deck: has been prohibited in most airlines since this Lubitz-bonker crashed the Germanwings Airbus, because he could not take life anymore.

It's always a few idiots who ruin it for the rest and at the same time it is the legislators who rush to implement new regulations/laws, just because something went awfully wrong on one single flight out of hundreds of thousands. What a mad world full of people only interested in covering their own behinds.
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Old 17th Nov 2016, 13:20
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It's been said before, never, ever leave one pilot alone on the flightdeck. Many airlines insist that a member of cabin crew go in there. And before anyone asks "what could they do, they aren't qualified pilots?" the answer is: open the door.
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