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Mid-Air Collision over Southern Germany (merged)

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Mid-Air Collision over Southern Germany (merged)

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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 00:47
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German Radio reports 97 persons on board of both planes. Up to now about 150 casualties. Several buildings on fire. Police Helicopters with FLIR and nightvision in the air, search-boats are on the bodensee.

A news reporter (SWR) reported that at least one flight data recorder was found in the backyard of a house, together with one wheel of the tupolew.

Last edited by Denti; 2nd Jul 2002 at 00:57.
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 01:09
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Unhappy From AirDisaster.com and CNN

http://www.airdisaster.com/news/0702/01/news.shtml

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe...ion/index.html

Last edited by Glonass; 2nd Jul 2002 at 01:13.
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 01:26
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Tupolev registration is RA-85816

http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...nct_entry=true
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 02:49
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JUST WAIT

Look Its close to me what happened tonight. PLEASE WAIT until an investigation has been carried out , and dont cast speculation before u "hit the Post button". Alot of people have been affected by this OK.

Last edited by Hogg; 2nd Jul 2002 at 03:16.
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 03:20
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mid-air dhl 757

at a news conference in baden wurtenburg it was stated that that the tupolev was asked repeatedly to descend but did not comply.757 received tcas warning afterwards.under control by swiss atc close to the swiss/german border.most of the victims on the tupolev were children, according to the report 93.

god rest all involved.
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 03:56
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German Embassy in Moscow released details of pax aboard TU-154, which were 49 adults and 8 children. Crew of 12.

This, together with the two cockpit crew of the DHL 757 brings the fatalities to 71.

No one on the ground appears to have been killed or injured.
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 03:57
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Unhappy The ATC

Spare a thought for the Controller on duty.......

RIP to the pax & crew....
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 04:11
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There were only 8 adults on board the aircraft and the rest were children. Very sad!
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 04:15
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Where is this rumour coming from that suggests the majority of pax on board the TU-154 were children?

Official figures (see my earlier posting) are unambiguous:
49 adults, 8 children, 12 crew.
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 04:43
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Are there any FACTUAL reports yet as to the nationality of the B757 crew ?

Would they have been based in BAH ?
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 04:50
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British pilot, Paul Phillips, and his Canadian co-pilot, Brant Campioni.
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 04:54
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Alpha Leader

CNN are reporting the other way round 49 children, 8 adults, 12 crew.

God Bless
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 05:35
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Don't flare me for this - I'm not blaming, but RVSM? ...

Very sad news indeed
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 05:41
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AMR -

It "appears" as though RVSM had nothing to do with this, as both aircraft were apparently at the same level, also, I doubt that the T154 had RVSM compliance and BOTH aircraft require compliance to use 1000' separation above FL290.

- Having said that, everything is not always as it appears -

SD
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 06:10
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Very very sad and disturbing.why were both at the same altitude and how come TCAS did not prevent the accident for the 757 crew?.Since the TU154 did not respond to ATC descent requests,what was done about the 757,by ATC ???Are we asking too much from our airspace in Europe???????

Last edited by Nicosia; 2nd Jul 2002 at 06:13.
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 06:12
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Nicosia:

Swiss and German reports say that one of the a/c (probably the TU134) had just passed from Munich to Zurich ATC prior to the collision.

Moreover, Ulrich Müller, the Minister for Transport of Baden-Württemberg, mentioned during a press conference earlier today that first official reports had established that the crew of the TU154 - despite having been repeatedly directed to a lower FL by Zurich ATC - had not complied.

Last edited by Alpha Leader; 2nd Jul 2002 at 06:15.
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 06:14
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They could have been assigned the same FL under the semicircular rule. I wonder why on earth the Russian crew didn't respond...
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 06:17
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This is even more disturbing,if it is a hand over problem.It brings to light the recent ATC strikes over allocation of National Airspace..this should make all think again
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 06:18
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Question for ATCOs...

Should 2 aircraft in your sector be seen to be approaching each other, is the SOP "avoiding action" to be taken, in terms of calls to the aircraft, directed generally at one aircraft, or a balance between the 2?

With possibilities of RT failure, distraction of pilots, incomplete hand over (I'm not speculating on this accident here), targetting one aircraft seems potentially short sighted.

WRT this accident, it seems incorrect to me for Swiss ATC to be already publicly blaming the Russian pilot "becuase he did not respond to calls". Why did they not co-ordinate this action with the DHL aircraft?

I just hope the TU-154 did not start descending in response to ATC, simulataneously as the DHL started a TCAS descent...

NoD
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Old 2nd Jul 2002, 06:31
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Two things come to mind.
Fatigued pilots. If the public knew our limitations on duty hours they would probably never fly again and the Russain limits are even worse. Secondly the Russains find it impossible to converse in the English language when something is said out of the norm!
Compound this with English in a German accent to a sleepy Russain.
Tragedies like this are caused by governments and authorities not addressing the problems we encounter every day.
May you all rest in peace.
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