Mid-Air Collision over Southern Germany (merged)
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German Radio reports 97 persons on board of both planes. Up to now about 150 casualties. Several buildings on fire. Police Helicopters with FLIR and nightvision in the air, search-boats are on the bodensee.
A news reporter (SWR) reported that at least one flight data recorder was found in the backyard of a house, together with one wheel of the tupolew.
A news reporter (SWR) reported that at least one flight data recorder was found in the backyard of a house, together with one wheel of the tupolew.
Last edited by Denti; 2nd Jul 2002 at 00:57.
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From AirDisaster.com and CNN
http://www.airdisaster.com/news/0702/01/news.shtml
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe...ion/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe...ion/index.html
Last edited by Glonass; 2nd Jul 2002 at 01:13.
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JUST WAIT
Look Its close to me what happened tonight. PLEASE WAIT until an investigation has been carried out , and dont cast speculation before u "hit the Post button". Alot of people have been affected by this OK.
Last edited by Hogg; 2nd Jul 2002 at 03:16.
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mid-air dhl 757
at a news conference in baden wurtenburg it was stated that that the tupolev was asked repeatedly to descend but did not comply.757 received tcas warning afterwards.under control by swiss atc close to the swiss/german border.most of the victims on the tupolev were children, according to the report 93.
god rest all involved.
god rest all involved.
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German Embassy in Moscow released details of pax aboard TU-154, which were 49 adults and 8 children. Crew of 12.
This, together with the two cockpit crew of the DHL 757 brings the fatalities to 71.
No one on the ground appears to have been killed or injured.
This, together with the two cockpit crew of the DHL 757 brings the fatalities to 71.
No one on the ground appears to have been killed or injured.
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Where is this rumour coming from that suggests the majority of pax on board the TU-154 were children?
Official figures (see my earlier posting) are unambiguous:
49 adults, 8 children, 12 crew.
Official figures (see my earlier posting) are unambiguous:
49 adults, 8 children, 12 crew.
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AMR -
It "appears" as though RVSM had nothing to do with this, as both aircraft were apparently at the same level, also, I doubt that the T154 had RVSM compliance and BOTH aircraft require compliance to use 1000' separation above FL290.
- Having said that, everything is not always as it appears -
SD
It "appears" as though RVSM had nothing to do with this, as both aircraft were apparently at the same level, also, I doubt that the T154 had RVSM compliance and BOTH aircraft require compliance to use 1000' separation above FL290.
- Having said that, everything is not always as it appears -
SD
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Very very sad and disturbing.why were both at the same altitude and how come TCAS did not prevent the accident for the 757 crew?.Since the TU154 did not respond to ATC descent requests,what was done about the 757,by ATC ???Are we asking too much from our airspace in Europe???????
Last edited by Nicosia; 2nd Jul 2002 at 06:13.
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Nicosia:
Swiss and German reports say that one of the a/c (probably the TU134) had just passed from Munich to Zurich ATC prior to the collision.
Moreover, Ulrich Müller, the Minister for Transport of Baden-Württemberg, mentioned during a press conference earlier today that first official reports had established that the crew of the TU154 - despite having been repeatedly directed to a lower FL by Zurich ATC - had not complied.
Swiss and German reports say that one of the a/c (probably the TU134) had just passed from Munich to Zurich ATC prior to the collision.
Moreover, Ulrich Müller, the Minister for Transport of Baden-Württemberg, mentioned during a press conference earlier today that first official reports had established that the crew of the TU154 - despite having been repeatedly directed to a lower FL by Zurich ATC - had not complied.
Last edited by Alpha Leader; 2nd Jul 2002 at 06:15.
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Question for ATCOs...
Should 2 aircraft in your sector be seen to be approaching each other, is the SOP "avoiding action" to be taken, in terms of calls to the aircraft, directed generally at one aircraft, or a balance between the 2?
With possibilities of RT failure, distraction of pilots, incomplete hand over (I'm not speculating on this accident here), targetting one aircraft seems potentially short sighted.
WRT this accident, it seems incorrect to me for Swiss ATC to be already publicly blaming the Russian pilot "becuase he did not respond to calls". Why did they not co-ordinate this action with the DHL aircraft?
I just hope the TU-154 did not start descending in response to ATC, simulataneously as the DHL started a TCAS descent...
NoD
Should 2 aircraft in your sector be seen to be approaching each other, is the SOP "avoiding action" to be taken, in terms of calls to the aircraft, directed generally at one aircraft, or a balance between the 2?
With possibilities of RT failure, distraction of pilots, incomplete hand over (I'm not speculating on this accident here), targetting one aircraft seems potentially short sighted.
WRT this accident, it seems incorrect to me for Swiss ATC to be already publicly blaming the Russian pilot "becuase he did not respond to calls". Why did they not co-ordinate this action with the DHL aircraft?
I just hope the TU-154 did not start descending in response to ATC, simulataneously as the DHL started a TCAS descent...
NoD
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Two things come to mind.
Fatigued pilots. If the public knew our limitations on duty hours they would probably never fly again and the Russain limits are even worse. Secondly the Russains find it impossible to converse in the English language when something is said out of the norm!
Compound this with English in a German accent to a sleepy Russain.
Tragedies like this are caused by governments and authorities not addressing the problems we encounter every day.
May you all rest in peace.
Fatigued pilots. If the public knew our limitations on duty hours they would probably never fly again and the Russain limits are even worse. Secondly the Russains find it impossible to converse in the English language when something is said out of the norm!
Compound this with English in a German accent to a sleepy Russain.
Tragedies like this are caused by governments and authorities not addressing the problems we encounter every day.
May you all rest in peace.