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French ATC Strike

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French ATC Strike

Old 20th May 2016, 07:12
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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i do not like what this ultra liberal Trump-like society wants to achieve both economically and socially in the end. All working for minimal wages 15h a day 6 days a week like in the 1850, (or like in Ethiopia or Erithrea today ) ?
The voice of reason.

Our societies are vulnerable to be exploited, mainly because we thought we can make it right and then sit back and let life pass by.

Never underestimate greed.

Having said that, one thing that makes me really cringe is the apparent incapability of some governments employers and workforces alike to find a compromise that works and works for time longer than one shift in Paris ATC center....

If the french ATC wants to change french labour and social laws, how about penalizing just french tails ? What do they think, we non-french victims of their doings can do to change anything IN France ? Especially considering its being France where any intervention from other countries just produces outcries of "Vive la France, vive la grande Nation", we do as we please etcetc....
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Old 20th May 2016, 08:31
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What do they think, we non-french victims of their doings can do to change anything IN France ?
We personally can't do anything of course. But, if their actions impact trade and economies in other countries, the theory is that their governments can put pressure on the French government to get their house in order.
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Old 20th May 2016, 10:01
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At a personal level, this is getting beyond a joke - a fortnight ago I was delayed in UK for 3 days by French ATC strike fortunately I could stay with friends and did not have to fork out for 3 nights in a hotel. In 5 weeks my eldest son is getting married in Spain, he lives in UK. If travel is disrupted then his and his finacee's wedding could be ruined, as no-one from UK would be able to get to Spain. We could actually get there by car!
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Old 20th May 2016, 11:52
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Yup, so go by car, what's the problem?
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Old 20th May 2016, 12:00
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Errr, quite possibly this:

France Braces for Potential Halt of Oil Refineries Amid Strike - Bloomberg

I'd refer anyone planning on traveling through or to France in the next month or so to captain playstation's absolutely spot on comment earlier in the thread that: "There are bigger things brewing in France, and it won't just be ATC on strike as this Summer progresses."

TBH whilst this action (ATC and most especially elsewhere) has some public sympathy (workers rights and all that) the bigger issue here is the fight between the major syndicats (unions), such as the CGT, and Mr Valls over who really runs the economy and the country, so this could go on and on this summer....and TBF even the locals, especially those not in unions or working for the public sector, are getting p****d off with their travel plans being interfered with.

Last edited by wiggy; 20th May 2016 at 12:16.
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Old 21st May 2016, 23:03
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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I don't mind them going I strike; I just don't see where their employer doesn't have an equal and opposite right to fire them. Who is the Boss here--the employee or employer?

I say that as someone who went on strike (major air carrier) and assumed my action was the functional equivalent of a resignation. I moved on to another chapter, they disappeared.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 00:32
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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This is why airlines have closed say their catering department and subcontracted out. The gimme gimme unions have shot themselves in the foot. How can you have the bread buttering department shut down an airline.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 09:56
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galaxy flyer, the problem is that replacing air traffic controllers takes time. Even if you take on licensed controllers from other sources/countries, they have to train and validate on multiple sectors in a completely new environment. That may take up to two years. A type qualified pilot can be hired and fly the line in a much shorter period of time than that.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 13:37
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This is why airlines have closed say their catering department and subcontracted out. The gimme gimme unions have shot themselves in the foot. How can you have the bread buttering department shut down an airline.
Iīd say your view is very shortsighted. If you live on a continent that tries to get together and has 28 different social and labour laws, the workforce is subject to real problems in terms of competition. The employers on the other hand do have a golden opportunity in exploiting their workforce and the big, big handle of "if you donīt obey Iīll move next door".

Now, one can sit back and let that happen, or not. France has a very good example right at their doorstep: Germany, were the labour and contract laws have been twisted in a way, that we do have a lot of employed people, but employed for wages were they canīt live off, canīt get anything aside for retirement etcetc. which will lead to massive amounts of poor people in a few years. All for the sake of profits of people that donīt get taxed properly or can evade said taxes, the prime example being Amazon that pays 0,9% in Luxembourg, whilst ruining the small shop in the inner cities in all european countries. Said shops pay up to 30% taxes and their employees are usually native people that could live and pay into the pension funds, unemployment insurance etcetc.

It is high time that the european people (and IMO the americans too) put an end to this. But instead some think voting for a billionaire will make things any better for them. The european politicians are a disgusting bunch of lobbyists and hardly disguised speaks persons for large corporations, which are the main winners of our legislative process by not democratically elected persons such as Jean-Claude Juncker & the likes...

We need to go back to system were one cannot easily make more money simply by having money, but were employing people makes one earn it.

Last edited by His dudeness; 22nd May 2016 at 13:51.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 20:18
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What was all the fuss about.

Strike before this one, on time departure to and from Spain, this strike just a 20 min slot departing the UK and on time, no slot departure coming back with an early arrival back home.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 10:47
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I was surprised that Ryanair seemed to cancel everything on 28 April, whereas Sleazy flew Gatwick-Nantes with few problems. usually if French ATC striking our Stansted- La Rochelle flight seems to toddle down the coast and turn left at the Ile de Re. Simples - but not that time - maybe it was part of his campaign to make strikes by controllers illegal - but I suspect he is dreaming there
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Old 23rd May 2016, 13:49
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Originally Posted by core_dump
In a truly free market, if you don't show up for work I am allowed to fire you and hire someone else willing to do the job.
Then we wonder why t&cs keep dropping year after year...

Be careful with what you wish for. Maybe one day yourself or your kids will be at the receiving end of what you envisage.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 21:38
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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HT

Not necessary to fire anyone, but the possibility might be cause some useful timidity. We seemed to recover with some painful ATC conservatism. I flew thru the US strike recovery and it wasn't easy, but doable.
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Old 24th May 2016, 08:29
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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French are at it again on thursday:

Eurocontrol Public Flow portal

I fear this may become a weekly occurrence? How much has all this striking cost airlines across Europe already this year?
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Old 24th May 2016, 08:57
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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speedbird

I fear this may become a weekly occurrence?
As mentioned elsewhere on Pprune it as all kicked off here over the last few days and certainly passengers arriving at French airports, especially in the north, picking up a hire car need a bit of a fuel plan. Rumours are that as yet aircraft refuelling won't be effected - at the major airports.
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Old 24th May 2016, 09:14
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As you say, just a matter of time before flights to France will be round-trip fuel (payload permitting) or a Tech stop to add to the joy


French labour dispute: Strike hits all eight oil refineries - BBC News
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Old 24th May 2016, 09:52
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Supermarkets in our area (Vendee) allow €30 worth of fuel a visit, up nearer Nantes it was €25 - but it is set by the Prefecture of the Departement - there are reports of petrol stations further north running out
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Old 24th May 2016, 21:20
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Just heard that plans are made for the ENTIRE aviation community to go on strike in France, on 3-4-5th of June.
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Old 25th May 2016, 13:28
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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galaxy flyer, the problem is that replacing air traffic controllers takes time. Even if you take on licensed controllers from other sources/countries, they have to train and validate on multiple sectors in a completely new environment. That may take up to two years. A type qualified pilot can be hired and fly the line in a much shorter period of time than that.
Ronald Reagan proved that wrong. He fired 11,000 ATC employees. Within days operation was at 80% and a lifetime ban was imposed on all strikers from being rehired.
Little or no problem since ... unlike France where this almost seems to be a seasonal occurrence and collectively probably al lot worse over the years than the "end it all" in 1981 in the US.
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Old 25th May 2016, 13:42
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I can understand the frustating feelings of passengers and people who has a link with the french collegues. I admire their tough position against a system (global) that take our rights out of window, if we can't fight and accept everything we will end in . Look a global economy, it's just crap. Everything is open, global, liberal but nothing get really better, we still have a big poverty in the third world, in EU & USA we have a strong crisis and we still belive (some of us) that we still have to open the market!?!? Are we blind and can't understand that the open market will make happy the richest in the world and make us argue between us and fiight to have a little job, which should be paid less because it's still an open market.... I'm young, I am positive but I see the future not bright and happy, not only for ATC, but in general I can see difficulties for all the stakeholders involved in aviaton, especially airlines.


I support the french ATC, they should try to lower the days of strikes but they have rights which are going to be fight, Ryanair isn't even possible to mention on this, because they take advantage of the good job of ATCO (shortcuts, no delay, ect...) and than they collect sign to force ATCO to dont strike!?! a bit contraddictory... Next time I will ask Ryanair to put more fuel on board so they dont need to ask priority on landing!
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