United flight attendant pulls emergency exit, walks away
Obviously this person 'lost it', but does that make them insane? A moment of madness, did they just loose their temper or are they indeed 'mad'? That is why I put the question. There are degrees of insanity and therefore responsibility.
I was not one of those calling for draconian punishment or suggesting the punishment should be to 'cage' or lock the individual up. If they are indeed found to be sane (or rather not insane) and therefore should be punished the option to restrict their liberty can take a variety of forms besides imprisoning them. Plus the fact of having to pay significant compensation could also be considered a major part of the punishment.
Part of any punishment must also be to make any victim (in this case the company, the staff and passengers affected) feel they have rececived justice for their ordeal - no?
I was not one of those calling for draconian punishment or suggesting the punishment should be to 'cage' or lock the individual up. If they are indeed found to be sane (or rather not insane) and therefore should be punished the option to restrict their liberty can take a variety of forms besides imprisoning them. Plus the fact of having to pay significant compensation could also be considered a major part of the punishment.
Part of any punishment must also be to make any victim (in this case the company, the staff and passengers affected) feel they have rececived justice for their ordeal - no?
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: antipodies
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahh it is possible that this was not an insane act or even a bad one, Just possibly they were attempting to draw attention to some serious problem (possibly even with passenger safety consequences) in their working conditions and having tried all the proper channels and failed, made a rational considered decision to attract attention in this manner. I dont know! But its a plausible scenario. Some jurisdictions protect wistleblowers for good (safety related) reasons.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: new jersey
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahh it is possible that this was not an insane act or even a bad one, Just possibly they were attempting to draw attention to some serious problem (possibly even with passenger safety consequences) in their working conditions and having tried all the proper channels and failed, made a rational considered decision to attract attention in this manner. I dont know! But its a plausible scenario. Some jurisdictions protect wistleblowers for good (safety related) reasons.
As a pilot there, I can vouch that there are no secret rules or working conditions needing a whistle.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: antipodies
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well (hypothetically) A pilot who was "untouchable" in the organisation developing delusions of omnipotency?. it does happen ! I would certainly want to check out if the FA had genuine concerns first.
Or to put another angle suppose you were FA on the germanwings flight and you thought the captain was about to loop out . If the plane was on the ground how might you ensure it did not continue on its next leg.
I am not suggesting that any such thing was the case here . Just that possibly the FA quite rationally and ethically felt that pulling a landing chute was the only option at the time (rightly or wrongly). It needs to be considered and checked out before the book is thrown at them or they are declared insane.
Imagine (once again hypothetically) that you felt you had to leave your job because in some way safety was being compromised. Would you not feel guilty if you just quietly left? Wouldent you want to make some sort of final attempt to get the organisation to wake up on your way out.
Or to put another angle suppose you were FA on the germanwings flight and you thought the captain was about to loop out . If the plane was on the ground how might you ensure it did not continue on its next leg.
I am not suggesting that any such thing was the case here . Just that possibly the FA quite rationally and ethically felt that pulling a landing chute was the only option at the time (rightly or wrongly). It needs to be considered and checked out before the book is thrown at them or they are declared insane.
Imagine (once again hypothetically) that you felt you had to leave your job because in some way safety was being compromised. Would you not feel guilty if you just quietly left? Wouldent you want to make some sort of final attempt to get the organisation to wake up on your way out.
Last edited by phylosocopter; 16th Apr 2016 at 01:30.
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
phylosocopter
Sorry, my imagination doesn't run in the same circles as apparently does your's.
Imagine (once again hypothetically) that you felt you had to leave your job because in some way safety was being compromised. Would you not feel guilty if you just quietly left? Wouldent you want to make some sort of final attempt to get the organisation to wake up on your way out.
Subtle one there Junkflyer. Like it!
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Northern Territory Australia
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Porirua
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Phlosocopter.......When I first read your posts,especially #44,I figured you were on the "terps" and may have needed huge amounts of help yourself.After chewing the cud for a while,I believe you do have valid points,and as you state,they should be at least looked into.
Whether it be cabin or flight crew,we are privy to security and the inner working of the aircraft we fly.We see daily,constant, spontaneous actions by members of any organization,something that has become a trend,now that social media is the theme of the day.
I would also add,as of late,we have had a pilot turn up inebriated,a cabin crew set fire to the lav,and several emergency slide deployments(intentional).To suggest that these actions are by individuals,who want to change policy,procedures,etc etc,and that is the way to do things,then I would also suggest you are reaching for straws here.
I hope you are dead wrong!!, certainly worth thinking about.If this actually turns out to be the case,in your theory,then mate!!! We are in bloody trouble!!!There is no room in this business for those antics.
I certainly hope she gets the help she needs,irregardless of the outcome.As I said,your posts are not that far out of line.You made me think about it.
Whether it be cabin or flight crew,we are privy to security and the inner working of the aircraft we fly.We see daily,constant, spontaneous actions by members of any organization,something that has become a trend,now that social media is the theme of the day.
I would also add,as of late,we have had a pilot turn up inebriated,a cabin crew set fire to the lav,and several emergency slide deployments(intentional).To suggest that these actions are by individuals,who want to change policy,procedures,etc etc,and that is the way to do things,then I would also suggest you are reaching for straws here.
I hope you are dead wrong!!, certainly worth thinking about.If this actually turns out to be the case,in your theory,then mate!!! We are in bloody trouble!!!There is no room in this business for those antics.
I certainly hope she gets the help she needs,irregardless of the outcome.As I said,your posts are not that far out of line.You made me think about it.
Last edited by Pakehaboy; 23rd Apr 2016 at 17:21.
I remember in B.Cal days a DC10 was a bit tight on crew hours for the flight ex LGW. The Captain had the front door closed and the jetway removed. The Superchief (CSD) ordered the rear flight attendant to open one of the rear armed doors which she did. I think either one or both of them got the boot.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Porirua
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Portvale,whilst I agree with you,where do you draw the line?.There is a huge difference between those that have "real" issues as opposed to those that show-stand.I would make the point,that we are seeing more of this with a "generation" of younger individuals that are coming into this arena,not all,but more than normal.
You just have to look and listen to some of the "attitudes" that prevail,not hard to see if you take the time to listen.
The help and programmes provided by the larger operations are just that,they are there for the taking,but the stigmas attached when an individual fesses up is where I think most of the issue is.I have a good friend who runs one of these programmes,she tells me often,the company knows several individuals have issues,how do they know this?,the paper trail and the " word on the street",but there is a fine line,as to how they,the company,are able to approach the situation.
Right or wrong,unless that individual specifically asks for help,or does,or says something blatantly obvious,the ability to intervene take action of somekind is small.
These programmes and help are proactive and great,but the stigma attached has huge ramifications,we certainly need to refine how they sell " help"....not an easy sell in an industry such as Airlines
You just have to look and listen to some of the "attitudes" that prevail,not hard to see if you take the time to listen.
The help and programmes provided by the larger operations are just that,they are there for the taking,but the stigmas attached when an individual fesses up is where I think most of the issue is.I have a good friend who runs one of these programmes,she tells me often,the company knows several individuals have issues,how do they know this?,the paper trail and the " word on the street",but there is a fine line,as to how they,the company,are able to approach the situation.
Right or wrong,unless that individual specifically asks for help,or does,or says something blatantly obvious,the ability to intervene take action of somekind is small.
These programmes and help are proactive and great,but the stigma attached has huge ramifications,we certainly need to refine how they sell " help"....not an easy sell in an industry such as Airlines
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PortVale:
Do you work for an airline?
The Jet Blue flight attendant could have, should have, removed himself from flight schedule with all the issues he had.
Same for the United flight attendant.
But, an airline employee that has a operational/safety job aboard an airliner full of innocent paying passengers has crossed a big red line when they bring their issues/emotional troubles to the airplane.
Pilots have doubtless done this over the years and have sometimes cost everyone aboard their lives.
Christ some of you on here.
The whole point of the aviation safety culture is to understand why fallible humans do things to prevent it happening again. Not blanket punishment.
The JetBlue FA who pulled the slide was mentioned earlier in the thread. It was mentioned he had HIV, a terminally ill mother, a recently deceased father. He is a Cretin for his actions on the aircraft but my concern with that incident is why he was at work at the first place. Did JB not have a just culture where he could self-report he wasn't fit to fly and take compassionate leave without having financial concerns? Is this United incident a similar story?
Humans factors. People do stupid things when stressed. It's about admitting human fallibility and establishing the right regulatory and corporate culture to mitigate it rather then getting the noose and 3 legged chair out!
The whole point of the aviation safety culture is to understand why fallible humans do things to prevent it happening again. Not blanket punishment.
The JetBlue FA who pulled the slide was mentioned earlier in the thread. It was mentioned he had HIV, a terminally ill mother, a recently deceased father. He is a Cretin for his actions on the aircraft but my concern with that incident is why he was at work at the first place. Did JB not have a just culture where he could self-report he wasn't fit to fly and take compassionate leave without having financial concerns? Is this United incident a similar story?
Humans factors. People do stupid things when stressed. It's about admitting human fallibility and establishing the right regulatory and corporate culture to mitigate it rather then getting the noose and 3 legged chair out!
The Jet Blue flight attendant could have, should have, removed himself from flight schedule with all the issues he had.
Same for the United flight attendant.
But, an airline employee that has a operational/safety job aboard an airliner full of innocent paying passengers has crossed a big red line when they bring their issues/emotional troubles to the airplane.
Pilots have doubtless done this over the years and have sometimes cost everyone aboard their lives.
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Port Vale, people with your forgiving nature are a large part of why behaviour in society as a whole, not just safety critical environments, is in such decline. Companies must support staff that come to them with a problem, but there can never be a justification for behaviour like this. Blowing a slide because, for example, a crew are insistent on departing without deicing is extreme but perhaps a final act to prevent an accident if the pilots refused to listen, but walking away away after the event is clearly a tantrum and not making a stand over a safety issue.
Yes, the event should be studied to learn why it happened to avoid a repeat, but for Christ's sake, we need to bring back repercussions for being an arsehole. So many advocate not a blameless culture, but we're getting, in some quarters, a get away with anything culture.
Yes, the event should be studied to learn why it happened to avoid a repeat, but for Christ's sake, we need to bring back repercussions for being an arsehole. So many advocate not a blameless culture, but we're getting, in some quarters, a get away with anything culture.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Paris
Age: 74
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Phylosocopter raises an interesting point.
Apart from that, the law sets down a scale of punishments - you know, a few years in prison for murder, ten year of hard labor for copying videos, etc. Where in that scale is deployinga chute supposed to fit in? It's not exactly life-threatening behavior. Maybe a hundred hours of community service? I would certainly rate it less aggravating than a pilot turning up drunk after driving his car to the airport ...and please don't tell me that doesn't happen ...
Edmund
Apart from that, the law sets down a scale of punishments - you know, a few years in prison for murder, ten year of hard labor for copying videos, etc. Where in that scale is deployinga chute supposed to fit in? It's not exactly life-threatening behavior. Maybe a hundred hours of community service? I would certainly rate it less aggravating than a pilot turning up drunk after driving his car to the airport ...and please don't tell me that doesn't happen ...
Edmund
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Porirua
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keyole,does it really matter how much it's costs?!in my 20 plus years on the Airbus I have had two(2) accidental slide deployments,one aft,that deployed as it should,the other into the jetway(major damage) and required a new slide.You are obviously unaware of what goes into repacking,testing ,etc of these slides before being re-installed
I would suggest this to you.An individual who deliberately deploys a slide,for no reason,as in a selfish and reckless act,and actually kills someone on the outside because of their stupid and reckless act,how much is that bloody worth?????
I'm with most posters here,there has to be help,and there has to be repocussions.You cannot allow reckless behavior to be the norm,especially with respect to airline operations.
I would suggest this to you.An individual who deliberately deploys a slide,for no reason,as in a selfish and reckless act,and actually kills someone on the outside because of their stupid and reckless act,how much is that bloody worth?????
I'm with most posters here,there has to be help,and there has to be repocussions.You cannot allow reckless behavior to be the norm,especially with respect to airline operations.
Last edited by Pakehaboy; 30th Apr 2016 at 15:44.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
did she take her carry on bag with her? I know that's the worst crime a passenger can comit
United flight attendant fired after emergency slide exit at IAH
I would suggest this to you.An individual who deliberately deploys a slide,for no reason,as in a selfish and reckless act,and actually kills someone on the outside because of their stupid and reckless act,how much is that bloody worth?????
But, since she was in the union, my guess is she'll claim that she was bullied at work and cop a walk.
