Aeromexico lands at wrong airport
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An updated list of wrong airport landing incidents is posted here:
http://www.thirdamendment.com/WrongWay.pdf
http://www.thirdamendment.com/WrongWay.pdf
Great stuff finding that Airbubba.
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They didn't list me landing my Cessna 150 at the wrong airport in San Diego. Good thing is you don't need PPR in the USA :-)
There was also the case of a BA 747 about 150ft away from landing on the M4.
There was also the case of a BA 747 about 150ft away from landing on the M4.
Read your list twice Airbubba but could not find the BOAC 707, (been over at Cartierville 
), that lobbed in at Cartierville instead of Dorval in Montreal.
Bit of a sucker trap that one if you were trying to go visual through the murk as Cartierville was almost on the nose if you were going for 24R.
), that lobbed in at Cartierville instead of Dorval in Montreal.Bit of a sucker trap that one if you were trying to go visual through the murk as Cartierville was almost on the nose if you were going for 24R.
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Read your list twice Airbubba but could not find the BOAC 707, (been over at Cartierville ), that lobbed in at Cartierville instead of Dorval in Montreal.
I don't know the year, but it must have been in the late '50s or early '60s. On the day in question, runway 28 (8800 feet) was closed for repairs so the active was 24 (less than 4000 feet). I gather the weather was marginal VFR and out of the murk appeared a BOAC Brittania on short final for 24. The plane landed and managed to stop at the intersection of 24/28. Bristol Britannia - circa 1958 Quite a feat if you've ever seen the approach to Cartieville's 24. The threshold is about 150 feet from St. Laurent Blvd. There's the four lane road, a chain link fence, some grass, and there are no approach lights. At any rate, Rene was the tower controller and realized that this was a major deal. He arranged for the pilot to park the aircraft in front of Canadair's Plant 1, called the local police to keep the curious at bay, called Customs, and sent the tower vehicle to pick up the captain and bring him to the tower to avoid the press.
When Montreal Terminal knew from Rene that the BOAC Britannia was safely down at Cartierville, Brian McDowell, a terminal controller with a rather dry if not bizarre sense of humour, immediately called BOAC and pretended to be a United Press reporter. He was enquiring about the new Britannia service between London and Cariterville and wanted to know the cost and schedule. They had no idea their flight was in Cartierville. Two days later the captain did his last flight for BOAC. With absolutely minimum fuel on board and no baggage, and likely no seats. he and the flight engineer flew the Britannia from Cartierville's 24 to Dorval's 24R. It was all over in less than 5 minutes.
Stan Madore writes: "BOAC did indeed land a Britannia at Cartierville. ...AND it landed long, naturally, thanks to the threshold impediments. At the time, runway 28 was being lengthened to accommodate the F104's. 28 has a pronounced hump in the middle, so you can't see one end from the other. F86's did use the old end of the runway and controllers usually gave the pilots position information on the big Miron trucks that were hauling dirt. The pilots, hearing the obvious hints, would keep it low to give the truck drivers something interesting in their lives. The drivers gradually got used to, or at least inured to, these events. As it happened, When Birdseed (ed note: Stan's lifelong name for Speedbird... ) landed, there was a Miron truck crossing the button of 06. Seeing the big bird coming at him, its engines roaring in reverse thrust, the driver did the sensible thing and, in panic, stalled the truck. Rene told me that when he got out to the scene, the driver, still seated in his cab, said to him: "You thought you could scare me, eh?" "You thought you could scare me, eh?" over and over. He had to be assisted out of the truck. There's more to this story..."
Ed Lesage writes: "... As you know, a Dorval tower check out required a controller to spend a cycle in Cartierville tower. So I too had the privilege of working there for a week. One came away with a whole new respect for that type of VFR operations. An experience that one could never fully appreciate working in Dorval tower. Where else in the world would a control tower have the ability, or the necessity to turn a red traffic light on a rural road! I remember relieving Ray Henry in Dorval tower one very early morning. He gave me the picture and as he was about to exit the tower, he said, very matter of factly; "Oh, by the way, there is a BOAC Britannia sitting in Carterville that will be coming over here today, after they strip it down". I guess I hadn't heard about it before then. Man was I surprised! I didn't know if he was joking or if this was for real."
Rob Millikin writes: "... I was not working when it happened, but can tell you my memory says it was in the 1961 or early 62, because I was living at the Mercroft Hotel on bord du lac, Dorval. One of my buddies was the base engineer for BOAC. He showed me copies of two BOAC teletypes addressed to the same person. I forget the guy's name but let's say it was Henry. I remember the content; 1st one said; "Capt Henry will fly Brittania G----- from CV to UL." 2nd one said; First Officer Henry will await the arrival of a Captain ... in UL." Sort of swift company reaction I think. You are correct, my buddy said the guy was canned when he returned to the UK (ed note; Rob's wording must be read carefully as chronologically; "... one minute he is a Captain, next minute he is a First Officer, and the last minute he is walking the street").
When Montreal Terminal knew from Rene that the BOAC Britannia was safely down at Cartierville, Brian McDowell, a terminal controller with a rather dry if not bizarre sense of humour, immediately called BOAC and pretended to be a United Press reporter. He was enquiring about the new Britannia service between London and Cariterville and wanted to know the cost and schedule. They had no idea their flight was in Cartierville. Two days later the captain did his last flight for BOAC. With absolutely minimum fuel on board and no baggage, and likely no seats. he and the flight engineer flew the Britannia from Cartierville's 24 to Dorval's 24R. It was all over in less than 5 minutes.
Stan Madore writes: "BOAC did indeed land a Britannia at Cartierville. ...AND it landed long, naturally, thanks to the threshold impediments. At the time, runway 28 was being lengthened to accommodate the F104's. 28 has a pronounced hump in the middle, so you can't see one end from the other. F86's did use the old end of the runway and controllers usually gave the pilots position information on the big Miron trucks that were hauling dirt. The pilots, hearing the obvious hints, would keep it low to give the truck drivers something interesting in their lives. The drivers gradually got used to, or at least inured to, these events. As it happened, When Birdseed (ed note: Stan's lifelong name for Speedbird... ) landed, there was a Miron truck crossing the button of 06. Seeing the big bird coming at him, its engines roaring in reverse thrust, the driver did the sensible thing and, in panic, stalled the truck. Rene told me that when he got out to the scene, the driver, still seated in his cab, said to him: "You thought you could scare me, eh?" "You thought you could scare me, eh?" over and over. He had to be assisted out of the truck. There's more to this story..."
Ed Lesage writes: "... As you know, a Dorval tower check out required a controller to spend a cycle in Cartierville tower. So I too had the privilege of working there for a week. One came away with a whole new respect for that type of VFR operations. An experience that one could never fully appreciate working in Dorval tower. Where else in the world would a control tower have the ability, or the necessity to turn a red traffic light on a rural road! I remember relieving Ray Henry in Dorval tower one very early morning. He gave me the picture and as he was about to exit the tower, he said, very matter of factly; "Oh, by the way, there is a BOAC Britannia sitting in Carterville that will be coming over here today, after they strip it down". I guess I hadn't heard about it before then. Man was I surprised! I didn't know if he was joking or if this was for real."
Rob Millikin writes: "... I was not working when it happened, but can tell you my memory says it was in the 1961 or early 62, because I was living at the Mercroft Hotel on bord du lac, Dorval. One of my buddies was the base engineer for BOAC. He showed me copies of two BOAC teletypes addressed to the same person. I forget the guy's name but let's say it was Henry. I remember the content; 1st one said; "Capt Henry will fly Brittania G----- from CV to UL." 2nd one said; First Officer Henry will await the arrival of a Captain ... in UL." Sort of swift company reaction I think. You are correct, my buddy said the guy was canned when he returned to the UK (ed note; Rob's wording must be read carefully as chronologically; "... one minute he is a Captain, next minute he is a First Officer, and the last minute he is walking the street").
...............but could not find the BOAC 707, (been over at Cartierville ), that lobbed in at Cartierville instead of Dorval in Montreal.
Bit of a sucker trap that one if you were trying to go visual through the murk as Cartierville was almost on the nose if you were going for 24R.
Bit of a sucker trap that one if you were trying to go visual through the murk as Cartierville was almost on the nose if you were going for 24R.
( Sorry, was writing this when you posted the above - my recollection was that he wasn't sacked, but then it was a long time ago ! )
There was also a story going around that a private pilot approaching Cartierville saw the Brit. landing and thought BOAC can't be wrong, it must be me, so went and landed at Dorval ! Can't confirm that, but it made a good story in the bar.
Following a prior incident the then Flight Manager had issued a notice explaining that the next Captain to land at the wrong airport would be sacked. Shortly afterwards he landed a Stratocruiser (?) at the USAF base at Burtonwood near Manchester, instead of Ringway. He didn't sack himself ( and no one else did, either )
A BOAC VC-10 landed at Sharjah instead of Dubai. I don't think that Captain was sacked either ?
Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 7th Apr 2016 at 01:39.
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Probably apocryphal, but I hope it's true: the Cartierville Tower controller is reported to have said "Speedbird XYZ, what are your intentions?"
Speedbird XYZ: "Start a chicken farm in Kent?"
Speedbird XYZ: "Start a chicken farm in Kent?"
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Probably apocryphal, but I hope it's true: the Cartierville Tower controller is reported to have said "Speedbird XYZ, what are your intentions?"
Speedbird XYZ: "Start a chicken farm in Kent?"
Speedbird XYZ: "Start a chicken farm in Kent?"
The Captain of the Pan Am B707 which landed at Northolt instead of Heathrow was (allegedly) asked by ATC for his intentions. "I guess I'll take up Chicken Farming" was the reply.
Back to the Aeroméxico flight, this was a code share, not a mainline flight, right? It's an unfortunate aspect of the branding in my opinion. The passenger is tricked into thinking that they are flying on the larger carrier but are ticketed on a commuter plane with quite possibly different training and standards.
Decades ago I had some military colleagues line up on the wrong airport in Italy while doing a night visual approach. They realized the mistake just before doing an unbriefed touch and go followed by a recovery at the correct field. After apologizing to both control towers and a rug dance for the Skipper the matter was closed as a learning episode.
An acquaintance was a passenger on the Piedmont F-28 that landed at Jacksonville, NC back in 1988. He said the dispatcher was trying to cut the captain some slack and suggested that they call the Jacksonville landing a fueling stop due to unforeseen traffic delays at the intended destination of Wilmington, NC. The captain wisely decided not to compound his error with a fabrication.
Another former colleague, now retired, was the flight engineer on a B-737 that landed at the wrong airport in Utah years ago. He repeatedly questioned whether they were aimed for the right piece of pavement but was told as a probationary newhire to shut up, watch and learn. In the modern era I suppose he would be hanged at the hearing for not being assertive.
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the flight engineer on a B-737
I did not know there was one (the B-737 requires two crew upfront).
Many airlines, including I believe some European ones, initially operated the B-737 with a three person crew due to union work rules.
United, Wien, Aloha and some other ALPA operators used a three person crew on the B-737 in the early 1970's. ALPA opposed the two pilot crew on the 737 but said it was OK on the DC-9 of the same era. After lengthy arbitrations and a couple of costly strikes (e.g. Wien Air Alaska) the B-737 flight engineer was gone except in some military versions of the plane.
We've recently discussed the use of a flight engineer on a two pilot aircraft somewhere on another PPRuNe thread. Some operators of the B-767, A306 and A310 used FE's years ago. The duties were essentially do the outside preflight, handle the logbook, watch for traffic and read checklists.
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Airbubba, I never knew that about the PanAm at Northolt - but I actually saw it on the approach and saw the subsequent take-off. I lived about 5 miles from Northolt. I was 11 years old.
Not only that, but ten years later I got to know the radar controller at LHR who handled them. He told me that they were landing on RW23 that day, and he asked them if they had the field in sight - after the affirmative reply, he handed them to the tower and concentrated on the next arrivals. The first he knew about the Northolt landing was when he received a phone call from an irate Northolt ATC who said - to slightly paraphrase the actual remarks - "One of your festering 707s has just landed here!"
Excuse the thread drift ....
Not only that, but ten years later I got to know the radar controller at LHR who handled them. He told me that they were landing on RW23 that day, and he asked them if they had the field in sight - after the affirmative reply, he handed them to the tower and concentrated on the next arrivals. The first he knew about the Northolt landing was when he received a phone call from an irate Northolt ATC who said - to slightly paraphrase the actual remarks - "One of your festering 707s has just landed here!"
Excuse the thread drift ....
There was a large tank gas-holder ( gasometer) positioned North of Heathrow, more or less lined up with LHR 23R, and following the PanAm episode it was suggested that 2 arrows be painted on the top, one labelled Heathrow, and one labelled Northolt, and pointing in the relevant directions !
I was once approaching New York Kennedy airport from the N.East, i.e. radar vectors off Deer Park for runway 22L. ATC gave us a vector, but then asked if we could accept a visual approach, I agreed and was then told that I was cleared for a visual approach to Rwy 22L, number two to a Clipper ( PanAm ) - did I have the Clipper in sight ? Affirmative, OK, continue and call Tower on xxx.xx
We had the airport in sight, and as we approached the centre line of 22L expected the Clipper to turn left in front of us, but no, it went straight on, and on and on. We made the turn on to final and requested landing clearance, which was given, and just after that we heard " er, Kennedy Tower, Clipper XXX, requesting assistance to final ? "
We were delighted that the "home" airline couldn't find their field !!
We later learned that it was a San Francisco based crew, presumably unfamiliar with New York ? Didn't lessen our delight tho', after all, if a Limey from across the Atlantic could find New York ..... !!!
I was once approaching New York Kennedy airport from the N.East, i.e. radar vectors off Deer Park for runway 22L. ATC gave us a vector, but then asked if we could accept a visual approach, I agreed and was then told that I was cleared for a visual approach to Rwy 22L, number two to a Clipper ( PanAm ) - did I have the Clipper in sight ? Affirmative, OK, continue and call Tower on xxx.xx
We had the airport in sight, and as we approached the centre line of 22L expected the Clipper to turn left in front of us, but no, it went straight on, and on and on. We made the turn on to final and requested landing clearance, which was given, and just after that we heard " er, Kennedy Tower, Clipper XXX, requesting assistance to final ? "
We were delighted that the "home" airline couldn't find their field !!
We later learned that it was a San Francisco based crew, presumably unfamiliar with New York ? Didn't lessen our delight tho', after all, if a Limey from across the Atlantic could find New York ..... !!!
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FYI ...
The C17 that landed at the wrong airport was AMC C17 tailnumber 88199 landing on Peter O'Knight instead of MacDill AFB. So just across the pond. If I remember correctly it was on or before Feb 12th 2016. When I measure the runways from a photo the difference is about 1 : 3. Both fields are on a peninsula. Have not heard about a report, but would be interesting to learn more. The plane came to a halt on top of the runway number 22. One or more days later it was turned 180 and took off from almost the same spot.
In the Southwest case a senator wrote an inquiring letter about it to Mr Huerta of the FAA. So there should be more information about it for those interested.
The C17 that landed at the wrong airport was AMC C17 tailnumber 88199 landing on Peter O'Knight instead of MacDill AFB. So just across the pond. If I remember correctly it was on or before Feb 12th 2016. When I measure the runways from a photo the difference is about 1 : 3. Both fields are on a peninsula. Have not heard about a report, but would be interesting to learn more. The plane came to a halt on top of the runway number 22. One or more days later it was turned 180 and took off from almost the same spot.
In the Southwest case a senator wrote an inquiring letter about it to Mr Huerta of the FAA. So there should be more information about it for those interested.
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(from Flying Mag)
Cause of C-17 Landing at Too-Small Airport Revealed
Air Force reveals the reasons behind the incident.
By Pia Bergqvist Posted January 25, 2013
C-17
** Photo by Bill Thornton**
The Air Force has concluded its investigation into an incident last July when a C-17 Globemaster III landed at the wrong airport. And the reasons for the mistake, according to a report that resulted from the Air Force investigation and published by the Tampa Bay Tribune, went beyond simple human error.
Rather than touching down at its intended destination — the MacDill Air Force Base (KMCF) in Tampa, Florida — the large cargo airplane landed at the Peter O Knight (KTPF) general aviation airport. KTPF is located about five miles northeast of KMCF on a similar albeit significantly smaller peninsula. The runway heading would have indicated to the pilots that they were approaching the right airport as both airports have the same Runway 4-22. However, it is surprising that the pilots of the heavy jet didn’t notice the difference in the runway lengths. KTPF’s runway is only about one third of the length of MacDill’s.
The report showed no record of who was in charge of the airplane, nor does it indicate whether any disciplinary action was taken against the crew, which was a part of the 305th Air Mobility Wing based in New Jersey. It does, however, state that in the days prior to the incident the crew “flew into complex airfields, dealt with multiple mission changes and flew long mission legs with several stops each day.”
The mission for the botched flight, which originated in Rome, had been changed several times before the final assignment of MacDill came about one hour before the Globemaster departed on July 20. Several factors, including previous time zone changes, contributed to the pilot and copilot not operating at full mental capacity. The report stated that the pilot was acting at a 79 percent cognitive effectiveness and the copilot 89 percent. In comparison, a 0.08 percent blood alcohol level reduces the cognitive capacity to 70 percent.
A third crewmember, also a Globemaster pilot, assisted during the mid-air refueling -- a requirement for the flight that lasted nearly 12 hours. It appears that the three crewmembers were the only people onboard the C-17 capable of flying the airplane. Fortunately the long flight ended in a safe landing at the 3,500-foot runway at KTPF, where the copilot was forced to apply “maximum effort braking” to get the airplane stopped in time. The final, short leg of the transoceanic flight was completed later the same day.
Cause of C-17 Landing at Too-Small Airport Revealed
Air Force reveals the reasons behind the incident.
By Pia Bergqvist Posted January 25, 2013
C-17** Photo by Bill Thornton**
The Air Force has concluded its investigation into an incident last July when a C-17 Globemaster III landed at the wrong airport. And the reasons for the mistake, according to a report that resulted from the Air Force investigation and published by the Tampa Bay Tribune, went beyond simple human error.
Rather than touching down at its intended destination — the MacDill Air Force Base (KMCF) in Tampa, Florida — the large cargo airplane landed at the Peter O Knight (KTPF) general aviation airport. KTPF is located about five miles northeast of KMCF on a similar albeit significantly smaller peninsula. The runway heading would have indicated to the pilots that they were approaching the right airport as both airports have the same Runway 4-22. However, it is surprising that the pilots of the heavy jet didn’t notice the difference in the runway lengths. KTPF’s runway is only about one third of the length of MacDill’s.
The report showed no record of who was in charge of the airplane, nor does it indicate whether any disciplinary action was taken against the crew, which was a part of the 305th Air Mobility Wing based in New Jersey. It does, however, state that in the days prior to the incident the crew “flew into complex airfields, dealt with multiple mission changes and flew long mission legs with several stops each day.”
The mission for the botched flight, which originated in Rome, had been changed several times before the final assignment of MacDill came about one hour before the Globemaster departed on July 20. Several factors, including previous time zone changes, contributed to the pilot and copilot not operating at full mental capacity. The report stated that the pilot was acting at a 79 percent cognitive effectiveness and the copilot 89 percent. In comparison, a 0.08 percent blood alcohol level reduces the cognitive capacity to 70 percent.
A third crewmember, also a Globemaster pilot, assisted during the mid-air refueling -- a requirement for the flight that lasted nearly 12 hours. It appears that the three crewmembers were the only people onboard the C-17 capable of flying the airplane. Fortunately the long flight ended in a safe landing at the 3,500-foot runway at KTPF, where the copilot was forced to apply “maximum effort braking” to get the airplane stopped in time. The final, short leg of the transoceanic flight was completed later the same day.
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The reason for the disciplinary action, would not be for the navigational error, but the fact that they must have landed without a Landing Clearance.
This flight could have also been in conflict with the circuit traffic at the wrong airfield. We don't know the full safety implications yet.
This flight could have also been in conflict with the circuit traffic at the wrong airfield. We don't know the full safety implications yet.
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The reason for the disciplinary action, would not be for the navigational error, but the fact that they must have landed without a Landing Clearance.
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A colleague from the C-17 Air Force Reserve community says a senior Marine General onboard the plane went to bat for the crew at the hearing and they did not have to fall on their swords for the mistake:
More information including details of the timeline leading up to the C-17 wrong runway landing here:
Air Force blames wrong airport landing on fatigue, human error | TBO.com and The Tampa Tribune
But in an e-mail to the Tribune on Tuesday, the head of U.S. Central Command at MacDill, Marine Gen. James Mattis, acknowledged he was on the plane. Mattis, whose responsibilities include running the war in Afghanistan, also said he sought leniency for the crew. "It was just human error," Mattis wrote. "I've made a lot of mistakes in my time, and some were real doozies (worse than landing at the wrong airstrip). The Marine Corps kept their sense of humor throughout my checkered career and allowed me to move onward and upward."
Air Force blames wrong airport landing on fatigue, human error | TBO.com and The Tampa Tribune
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The flight was operated by Aerolitoral dba Aeromexico Connect, a wholly owned subsidiary.
Don't expect any actions taken against the pilots, just to give you an example back in 2000 a mainline DC-9 touched down halfway down the runway on a rainy day in Reynosa, the plane went off the runway killing 4 people, and three years later another DC-9 flown by the SAME captain had another runway excursion during landing, this time in Monterrey, luckily with no casualties.
That's how things go down in good ole' Mexico
Don't expect any actions taken against the pilots, just to give you an example back in 2000 a mainline DC-9 touched down halfway down the runway on a rainy day in Reynosa, the plane went off the runway killing 4 people, and three years later another DC-9 flown by the SAME captain had another runway excursion during landing, this time in Monterrey, luckily with no casualties.
That's how things go down in good ole' Mexico