'Uncontrolled Rest' again? Virgin 206
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Uncontrolled Rest' again? Virgin 206
VIRGIN 206 lost or never made contact with Ulaanbatur control Mongolia for at least 30 minutes from around 0315 UTC on 5th March flying eastwards on B330 between Nigor and Silus. Perhaps, for some time previously on the Russian sector. Multiple attempts by ULaanbatur ATC and another aircraft ahead on the route, which was requested to contact them on control frequencies, the Emergency guard and the air to air frequencies failed. There was genuine concern that if they entered Chinese airspace without regaining contact that there would be an unfortunate response from the PLA AF. Luckily, probably due to the intervention of their cabin crew, they responded about 40 minutes prior to the handover. Another more wide awake voice later took over the R/T duties.
Is this another case of reduced manning on late night Long Haul flights resulting in insufficient in flight rest on back of the clock sectors? Are Virgin operating Four or only Three man crew to the Far East?
Had this continued or happened thirty minutes later, it could have been much more interesting - in the Chinese way..........
Is this another case of reduced manning on late night Long Haul flights resulting in insufficient in flight rest on back of the clock sectors? Are Virgin operating Four or only Three man crew to the Far East?
Had this continued or happened thirty minutes later, it could have been much more interesting - in the Chinese way..........
(ATC) looks up SELCAL code of concerned flight (field 18 of ATC flight plan)
(ATC) passes SELCAL code to a suitable relaying aircraft
(Relaying aircraft) SELCAL-pages lost comm aircraft on last known frequency and 121.5
Problem solved, isn't it?
(ATC) passes SELCAL code to a suitable relaying aircraft
(Relaying aircraft) SELCAL-pages lost comm aircraft on last known frequency and 121.5
Problem solved, isn't it?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kerry Eire
Age: 76
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely a simple solution to alert the aircraft would be to install a light and a bell in the Cabin Services Director's station which could be called in the same way as SELCAL should the cockpit fail to respond to repeated voice calls on VHF/HF and to SELCAL. Acknowledgement of the call from the cabin by a cancelling system would need to be followed by contact from the cockpit to confirm all is well.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Soon to be out of the EU.
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it was uncontrolled why don't the cabin crew call periodically? It's every 20 mins in my airline. If it was controlled rest then the pilot not sleeping should ring the cabin periodically. If that wasn't done then why?
Anyhow some types have a "pilot intervention" alert or similar if no button pressing/switch selection is done for a set period of time..Might have been "fatigue", could just a likely been volumes on the ACP turned down for some reason....
Who says an aircraft can't SELCAL another. Many ways exist, SELCAL tone coders for Windows, iOS, android are available.
In fact I have retrieved at least two "lost souls" over the Atlantic (one with Iceland, one with Gander, both were happy to provide the code) exactly like that.
In fact I have retrieved at least two "lost souls" over the Atlantic (one with Iceland, one with Gander, both were happy to provide the code) exactly like that.
Join Date: Jun 1996
Location: Check with Ops
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who says an aircraft can't SELCAL another. Many ways exist, SELCAL tone coders for Windows, iOS, android are available.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I say none of the four commercial types (Boeing) I've flown can SELCAL another. You may have an app installed on your phone and you may have access to the internet in flight; well done you. Normal pilots do not have a SELCAL app on their phone and not so many have internet access, so your solution is crucially flawed.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
Posts: 374
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SELCAL App for Android. This SELCAL app is a tone encoder which sounds SELCAL selective calling tones. The tones are produced in accordance with ICAO Annex 10 Volume II, ARINC Characteristic 714-6 Mark 3, ARINC 714A Mark 4 and ASRI SELCAL specifications.
)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Västerås
Age: 43
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Before we castigate the crew, could this be another case of sleeping receivers? We’ve had quite a few incidences of this in our airline...
Who says an aircraft can't SELCAL another. Many ways exist, SELCAL tone coders for Windows, iOS, android are available.
In fact I have retrieved at least two "lost souls" over the Atlantic (one with Iceland, one with Gander, both were happy to provide the code) exactly like that.
In fact I have retrieved at least two "lost souls" over the Atlantic (one with Iceland, one with Gander, both were happy to provide the code) exactly like that.
I wouldn't mind betting that aircraft modulation circuits have frequency response shaping to roll off the high frequencies of white noise found on the flight deck, thus causing more of a 'twist' between the two tones. Did you guys really believe that macho voice was all yours without artificial help?
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Star
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How may pilots on this flight?
We should put enough crew on longhaul flights to enable them to get proper inflight rest. Then maybe we would not have this discussion.
It's not about finding ways to wake up pilots, it's about stopping pilots from falling asleep in the first place.
We should put enough crew on longhaul flights to enable them to get proper inflight rest. Then maybe we would not have this discussion.
It's not about finding ways to wake up pilots, it's about stopping pilots from falling asleep in the first place.
