ANA order A380
QF have had a couple of diversions there.
And yet EK are apparently refusing to order any more A380 unless Airbus re-engineer it to make it more fuel efficient. Perhaps the economics are not quite as favourable as we’ve been led to believe?
It's called negotiation. Never admit that you're satisfied with what you've got.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: England
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy_S
And yet EK are apparently refusing to order any more A380 unless Airbus re-engineer it to make it more fuel efficient. Perhaps the economics are not quite as favourable as we’ve been led to believe?
As has been said, RR have updated the Trent 900 with the Trent 900EP and subsequently the Trent 900EP2, not vast steps but they quote 1% and 0.8% improvements in fuel consumption.
After this, there is talk of resurrecting the stretch version (A380-900) or similar with Trent XWB based engines (used on the A350).
None of this is 'new' info, they have been kicking it round for several years.
No manufacturer is going to leave a product to go stale, as new engines etc become available, it's natural they would look to incorporate them.
Originally Posted by Longtimer
my son flew from LAX to MEL on a QF 747 (refitted) and then back on their A380. He found the 747 much more comfortable (economy class both directions).
As has been said already, I actively pick flight to use A380 over 777/747's.
If I am going to be on a plane for some 22+ hours, I would rather it be a nice one.
Galdian
You are well informed. The JCAB have fought tooth and nail to keep the 380 out of Haneda. At one stage they were insisting that Skymark prove the a/c on domestic routes prior to using it on international routes! They also were insisting on using the a/c for base training at Haneda.
The only reason ANA is even looking at the 380 is because it is part of a make good for Airbus and various other interests that were tangled up in the Skymark debacle.
You are well informed. The JCAB have fought tooth and nail to keep the 380 out of Haneda. At one stage they were insisting that Skymark prove the a/c on domestic routes prior to using it on international routes! They also were insisting on using the a/c for base training at Haneda.
The only reason ANA is even looking at the 380 is because it is part of a make good for Airbus and various other interests that were tangled up in the Skymark debacle.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: the edge of madness
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RR have made quite a few improvements to the efficiency of the Trent series since the A380 was introduced so it could well be possible to incorporate these changes into a revised engine for the A380. This could give a fuel burn improvement of maybe as much as 5% with only minor tweaks to the airframe.
This could be enough to satisfy customers without the enormous investment required for a full Neo variant
This could be enough to satisfy customers without the enormous investment required for a full Neo variant
As has been said, RR have updated the Trent 900 with the Trent 900EP and subsequently the Trent 900EP2, not vast steps but they quote 1% and 0.8% improvements in fuel consumption.
After this, there is talk of resurrecting the stretch version (A380-900) or similar with Trent XWB based engines (used on the A350).
After this, there is talk of resurrecting the stretch version (A380-900) or similar with Trent XWB based engines (used on the A350).
In fact Emirates have said that if Airbus can deliver a fuel burn reduction of at least 10% on an aircraft basis they will order a minimum of 100 neos. Airbus/RR know that this needs a step beyond the XWB engine hence discussion about the Advance. Combined with aerodynamic tweaks Airbus say this should get 12% net of installation losses. RR was pushing this strongly last year but seems to have gone quiet - maybe their recently revealed financial woes have led them to curtail investment?
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what airline, of any size/experience - and without any outside pressure - would order 3 of anything??
mudcity: I'm sure any denial would have been made by an old, esteemed Japanese male and therefore his statement MUST be honest and correct based ONLY on the fact he's old, esteemed, male and Japanese.
Any facts to the contrary must be false....this is the Japanese way.
Gambate!
Cheers all.
mudcity: I'm sure any denial would have been made by an old, esteemed Japanese male and therefore his statement MUST be honest and correct based ONLY on the fact he's old, esteemed, male and Japanese.
Any facts to the contrary must be false....this is the Japanese way.
Gambate!
Cheers all.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VR-HFX
I'd suggest it goes a tad deeper, Airbus were preferring the Delta option for Skymark until within 48 hours of the final crunch...then they swung to the ANA option.
Gotta be a reason for that, this is the beginning (Part 1) of the payoff EOFS.
Parts 2 and onwards to follow.
Bring on the sake...for further negotiations for the benefit of ..............
(insert the Japanese bureaucracy/politics/businessmen of your choice who you think will derive the greatest payoff....ahem, apologies, greatest benefit for the benefit of Japan).
Regards the JCAB fighting to keep A380's out of Haneda: individuals can decide for themselves how much of that was legitimate wake turbulance consideration/trafic flow Vs certain local airlines not being able to compete.
Both reasonable points.
I'd suggest it goes a tad deeper, Airbus were preferring the Delta option for Skymark until within 48 hours of the final crunch...then they swung to the ANA option.
Gotta be a reason for that, this is the beginning (Part 1) of the payoff EOFS.
Parts 2 and onwards to follow.
Bring on the sake...for further negotiations for the benefit of ..............
(insert the Japanese bureaucracy/politics/businessmen of your choice who you think will derive the greatest payoff....ahem, apologies, greatest benefit for the benefit of Japan).
Regards the JCAB fighting to keep A380's out of Haneda: individuals can decide for themselves how much of that was legitimate wake turbulance consideration/trafic flow Vs certain local airlines not being able to compete.
Both reasonable points.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: England
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Torquelink
In fact Emirates have said that if Airbus can deliver a fuel burn reduction of at least 10% on an aircraft basis they will order a minimum of 100 neos. Airbus/RR know that this needs a step beyond the XWB engine hence discussion about the Advance. Combined with aerodynamic tweaks Airbus say this should get 12% net of installation losses. RR was pushing this strongly last year but seems to have gone quiet - maybe their recently revealed financial woes have led them to curtail investment?
that said, to get 10% gains on the A380 is going to require more than just engine work.
XWB has already flown on the A380 (test flights before A350)
edit - and the latest XWB 97..
This thread underlines an interesting point about making things that appeal to customers
The 777 appeals to Boeing customers in the form of the airline fiancial analysts but I will go out ona bit of limb and say its a pretty horrible plane to fly on. Too narrow , noisy and unstable in the sense that it rather wallows through the sky.I am not saying its bad plane because it is a terrific engineering achievement.
On the other than the much derided (at least on here) 380 is also an engineering wonder but its much smother and quieter with more room and much more comfortable cabin environment
So and I think this is true despite my small sample size passengers like the A 380 accountants like the T7 . So who are the real 'customers' for airliners
While the 380 is superior at hub to hub routes, again much derided here , the fact is that with the exception of Frankfurt and the ME most global hub airports serve global cities with a very very large 'local' population usually the most affluent in any given country so for me organic growth is going to push more existing and some new customers the way of the 380 even if it like the 74 takes agood few years to come into its own. All major airports are either slot constrained or will be in a few eyars anyway.
The 777 appeals to Boeing customers in the form of the airline fiancial analysts but I will go out ona bit of limb and say its a pretty horrible plane to fly on. Too narrow , noisy and unstable in the sense that it rather wallows through the sky.I am not saying its bad plane because it is a terrific engineering achievement.
On the other than the much derided (at least on here) 380 is also an engineering wonder but its much smother and quieter with more room and much more comfortable cabin environment
So and I think this is true despite my small sample size passengers like the A 380 accountants like the T7 . So who are the real 'customers' for airliners
While the 380 is superior at hub to hub routes, again much derided here , the fact is that with the exception of Frankfurt and the ME most global hub airports serve global cities with a very very large 'local' population usually the most affluent in any given country so for me organic growth is going to push more existing and some new customers the way of the 380 even if it like the 74 takes agood few years to come into its own. All major airports are either slot constrained or will be in a few eyars anyway.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: alaska
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Refitted QF 747
We fly the LAX-SDY roundtrip, QF economy, every year and seek out the 380 because it seems more comfortable to me but primarily because of the better Personal Entertainment System vs the 747-400. I would be interested to know what has been "refitted" on the QF 747's.
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLF here, flying DC to Europe from time to time and have always for whatever reason gotten a 777 no matter which carrier. Paid a little extra the latest time for one leg on the Air France A380. It was a great flight, so quiet, and lots of options for choosing a seat with a little extra room. One the way back I discovered that AF has now reconfigured their 777 for 10-across 
Again I paid a little extra for more room but the poor suffering bastards who did not were obviously miserable. I'm a fan and would go out of my way to be on the A380 again.
Again I paid a little extra for more room but the poor suffering bastards who did not were obviously miserable. I'm a fan and would go out of my way to be on the A380 again.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: scotland
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The refitted QF 747 is good, using the same seats and IFE as the 380 (I was a passenger on it a few times when it was running SYD-DFW), but I still prefer up the back of the 380 by a long shot. Unlike the cabin crew, who don't seem to like it at all.
