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Metrojet crash Eygpt

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Metrojet crash Eygpt

Old 17th Nov 2015, 17:03
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There is no evidence of the RPB being thrust forwards!
Blast was not strong enough to damage fuselage, I think. Also RPB is even stronger for external forces because of pressure. But bomb was planted smart enough to make tail detached.
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 17:03
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Egypt says has found no evidence criminal action behind plane crash

How does Egypt reconcile this with previous announcements concerning various suspects at the airport, etc?


Egypt says has found no evidence criminal action behind plane crash
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 17:09
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Mark, may be there is a presumption of innocence in Egypt?
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 17:10
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Exactly what is the wisdom in posting about possible trigger mechanisms and explosive devices on a public aviation forum???.......?
My thoughts exactly. Mods?
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 17:29
  #45 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Slow and curious
. Pressure altitude was reached earlier in the flight if device was placed in cargo-hold.
How do you figure that out with a pressurized cargo hold?
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 17:29
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Slow and Curious posting # 27.

Which type of Airbus has an unpressurised cargo/baggage hold?
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 17:30
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J J "TNT type explosive at the rear of the plane - so the video posted by "IS" showing immediate black smoke from fuel on fire is a fake?"

There is a fuel pipe to the APU there.
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 17:36
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I have no doubt that the Russians found explosive residue on that plane. The question is who put it there? I am deeply suspicious both because of the timing of the announcement (four days after another attack) but also because of the huge reward. I can't imagine Russia actually plans on playing that award to a neutral party.

I'll await the FULL report before making up my own mind--assuming now that we actually see a full report.
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 17:42
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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@ Pontius, BARKINGMAD
Quote:
"How do you figure that out with a pressurized cargo hold?"

Quote:
"Which type of Airbus has an unpressurised cargo/baggage hold?"


Well, that's what I'm saying. A purely barometric trigger without an additional timer, would have set off earlier.

Last edited by Slow and curious; 17th Nov 2015 at 18:05.
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 17:47
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Does the aircraft uplift catering in the airport?
Given that it had at least 12 hours on the ground then it would no have been catered for the return.
I understand ( but cannot confirm ) that there was a hot meal service on the flight?
Forget the hold - look at the catering.
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 18:35
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Now the boot is on the other foot.....

It will also be interesting to see how Putin now deals with the UN on MH17, with the Joint Criminal Investigation report around the corner, and confirmation that it was a Russian made warhead that brought MH17 down. Perhaps a co-incidence of interest will now result in consistent behaviour?
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 19:24
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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TNT type explosive at the rear of the plane - so the video posted by "IS" showing immediate black smoke from fuel on fire is a fake?
- "rear" of the plane: as far as I know, a more precise location has not been given, so until further notice it covers everything from the 'rear/aft cargo hold' up to the 'rear pressure bulkhead' and more
- Russian press reports (automatic translation): This is indicated by the fact that personal belongings, luggage and airplane parts were found traces of the explosive foreign production.
- given the presence of the extra cargo hold fuel tanks, following the initial explosive energy, TNT has 5 times more combustive energy, enough to set the (leaking) extra fuel tanks ablaze, with the incomplete combustion producing thick black smoke
- my (military) explosives training was limited to crudely blasting away brickwork with single quarter-kilo TNT sticks, but my uneducated guess would be that a 1 Kg TNT charge in the tail/APU section, would cause massive havoc to the tail section, not corroborated by available photos (it would however explain the HS separation )
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 19:42
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Relative effectiveness

They didn't say it was TNT, they gave a TNT equivalent, which is the standard for measuring the performance of different substances. In general it's called Relative Effectiveness Factor. TNT has a REF of one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rela...iveness_factor
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 19:55
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TAPT is a tad unstable. There might not have been a trigger at all, just a bit of turbulance
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 20:03
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Mark, may be there is a presumption of innocence in Egypt?
The reaction of the Egyptian Authorities just underlines the fact that they are untrustworthy when they are investigating themselves - remember EgyptAir 990 where they still claim it was caused by a rudder hard-over and not a deliberate act on the part of the relief first officer? Anything to protect their own reputation rather than admit the shocking truth.....
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 20:21
  #56 (permalink)  
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S&C, 're-reading your last and your OP I now see what you meant. Earlier in relation to the flight not the cabin.

Yes, a baro-timer would be the best option preventing premature detonation but ensuring detonation at altitude. How calculated point of detonation is something else to argue.
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 22:19
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The FSS guy mentioned a foreign manufactured explosive. Didn't sound like he meant "homemade"
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 22:28
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
Exactly what is the wisdom in posting about possible trigger mechanisms and explosive devices on a public aviation forum???.......?

My thoughts exactly. Mods?
It's not going to do any harm at all. Anyone with real intent to make such a device is going to be able to work out how to do it with very little technical knowledge and I'm sure there are plenty of places on the web, for example the dark web, where you could get detailed advice if you looked hard enough. I'm sure the bomb making expertise in the extremist community extends far beyond what is discussed here.
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 22:43
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The FSS guy mentioned a foreign manufactured explosive. Didn't sound like he meant "homemade"
Foreign to whom?
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Old 17th Nov 2015, 23:12
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I don't understand... US intel was IIRC first to suggest it was a bomb and now this?

US Department of State spokesperson Eric Toner said the United States has not accepted the Russian government’s conclusion that the Metrojet crash in the Sinai Peninsula was a terrorist act and has yet to make its own conclusion.

Read more: US Govt Refuses to Accept Russian Assessment A321 Crash Was Act of Terror
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