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BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

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BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

Old 6th Nov 2015, 19:09
  #1441 (permalink)  
 
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CVR

I think a lot of the public consumption gets too wrapped up in the "V" word in CVR standing for Voice.

There are other pieces of evidence also captured by the CVR which are electrically driven through the wires coming from both the Mics and the power source.

The electrical experts know what circuits do when severed and acoustic experts know what airborne noise travels to mics as well as structure borne ringing. All it takes is a half second of this stuff imprinted on the CVR to assess
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 19:24
  #1442 (permalink)  
 
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@#1444 quote: -----
Although this forum generates a lot of guesswork when accidents occur, there are people, like me, who find all theories fascinating. As someone once said: 'Suffer fools gladly because sometimes they're right'.
------

I agree 100% - it's like sitting in and watching a high powered debating circle / thinktank at work.
I could sit and read these threads all day, I love the fact that as a complete know-nothing I can rub shoulders with the likes of test pilots, jet airliner pilots to catering staff and just plain old 'people who know alot of stuff about air travel'

Sorry to wander off topic, I will add that if someone wanted to write a book about this Irish/Russian airliner downing they could probably do so using just this thread !

Have a nice weekend, all
R.F.
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 19:26
  #1443 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Randall Flagg View Post
@#1444 quote: -----
Although this forum generates a lot of guesswork when accidents occur, there are people, like me, who find all theories fascinating. As someone once said: 'Suffer fools gladly because sometimes they're right'.
------

I agree 100% - it's like sitting in and watching a high powered debating circle / thinktank at work.
I could sit and read these threads all day, I love the fact that as a complete know-nothing I can rub shoulders with the likes of test pilots, jet airliner pilots to catering staff and just plain old 'people who know alot of stuff about air travel'

Sorry to wander off topic, I will add that if someone wanted to write a book about this Irish/Russian airliner downing they could probably do so using just this thread !

Have a nice weekend, all
R.F.
Well said. I have only just subscribed as I have an interest in this story ( I used to work at Rolls-Royce so have an interest in aviation generally). It's fascinating to her the opinions of other who have direct experience in flying ( and also some others who have not..)
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 19:27
  #1444 (permalink)  
 
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It would be interesting if everyone who is convinced about a bomb could share their t

Who says the tail, HS etc. came off immediately? It looks to me like the side wall departed first (in the intial explosion) followed by some pax (the toddler being one- God rest her soul) with other parts trailing in the wind....

With a compromised struture, the rear fuselage eventually failed, dumping parts of the empennage of the way down.

This would explain the FDR continuing to record as the electrical wiring to it and its data feed may not have been compromised until the tail finally let go.

Simple?
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 19:37
  #1445 (permalink)  
 
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Can anyone tell me who is leading this investigation?

I find it (incredibly) hard to believe it is the Egyptians as frequently stated in the Media.. am I to assume that is just the 'official' line and MAK + BEA are (hopefully) in control?
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 19:52
  #1446 (permalink)  
 
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Well if ISIS can manage to convince some teenage girls from London to leave their school and their families, you wonder how many other "targets" they have, you just need to walk trough Luton Airport security to see the irony! Of course it is not politically correct to imply that the airport have employed 50% of their staff that could be likely recruitment tools for ISIS.
Agreed. Anyone dismissing this as a 'Third World' issue, has their head deep in the sand. I would suggest that, while we have been vigilant, we have also been extremely lucky to date.

Just multiply the number of people with airside access at major gateway airports (50,000 av?) x number of such airports and you're into tens of millions of potentially weakest links. It only takes one.

If such a thing can happen, albeit at a 'chance of one in x million' you only have to extend the time horizon long enough and, not only can it happen, it will happen, indeed it MUST happen.

Do we really believe that we will get lucky ALL the time?
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 19:58
  #1447 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EternalNY1 View Post
The problem is they released this immediately after the incident and this was from a wing of ISIS that only has released information in the past that has been verified as being true.

Also, all this confirmation from governments saying they overhead "chatter" and were warning other countries lends credibility to this.
Show us this "chatter".
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 19:59
  #1448 (permalink)  
 
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We may never know the true answer but how many times have security services foiled attempts to get air side access by people intent on terrorism? I agree we've been lucky (relatively speaking) but unfortunately, I can't see this run of luck lasting much longer given current events.
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 20:01
  #1449 (permalink)  
 
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So as the notion of a bomb gains supporters, what's our votes for the following options:
1) they've found bomb residue and/or signatures, but have suppressed the info

2) there's still no evidence there, but perhaps for some reason it's difficult to assess, such as (fill in the blanks)...a new bomb material....debris w signatures not yet located ....and so on....
Therefore Bomb still the cause.....

???
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 20:03
  #1450 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
Can anyone tell me who is leading this investigation?

I find it (incredibly) hard to believe it is the Egyptians as frequently stated in the Media.. am I to assume that is just the 'official' line and MAK + BEA are (hopefully) in control?
Now that every mother and its dog is trying to get out of Dodge fast, I would have thought it would be the local fuzz, with a few from other Counties and the Met, sniffing around. It can only be an air accident investigation if it was an accident. If it was a bomb then could it have gone off by accident would I suppose would be the only way it could still be an accident.
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 20:09
  #1451 (permalink)  
TWT
 
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Maybe they did finally have some success with the CVR download and heard an explosion.Whether they have any definitive results from swabs for explosives residue is unknown,as are many things at this stage.
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 20:09
  #1452 (permalink)  
 
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Smott999, I think #2

Also there was information that Egyptians investigate SSH security and interrogate airport staff, so may be they share some findings (possibly not connected to this particular bombing but so dirty that nobody will excuse governments not to take care).
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 20:11
  #1453 (permalink)  
 
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New type of explosives?
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 20:17
  #1454 (permalink)  
 
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Content deleted by author.

Last edited by thcrozier; 6th Nov 2015 at 22:18.
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 20:17
  #1455 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by glad rag View Post
Show us this "chatter".
Chatter is not a number of telephone transcripts but more likely traffic analysis, spikes of communication from one location and perhaps from several. You might have a call from A to many asking for information. You might have and unusual amount of email traffic etc.

You then back track and perhaps examine what was said before the event and so on.
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 20:33
  #1456 (permalink)  
 
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"No wonder the UK is firmly backing option 1 and persuading all others that it is the only reasonable explanation. There is a lot of political manoeuvering behind the scenes to ensure the "right" outcome."

Rubbish. If there is an airworthiness issue with the airplane, it will take time to sort it out and determine a fix. Unless it is blatant and unmistakable, there would be no immediate airworthiness action taken.

It seems like clues from satellite imagery, and black boxes that a sudden event, consistent with explosion occurred and and enough intelligence clues that a terrorist act may have occurred and it is prudent to take some protective measures in light of the obvious motives against Russia and west European states.

The available clues do not have to be conclusive or even the "only reasonable explanation" to take such steps. They only have to be sufficiently feasible that to ignore the potential for additional loss of life would be reckless and irresponsible.
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 20:36
  #1457 (permalink)  
 
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The mention of a "thermal signature" has me wondering if they are able to do a spectral analysis of the fireball as seen from the satellite. Done right, this can tell the analyst what is burning (at least on the elemental level), and at what temperature.

Last edited by oleostrut; 6th Nov 2015 at 22:09.
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 20:38
  #1458 (permalink)  
 
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Exclamation

@ILS27LEFT

I have not seen more than one video -- I think it's only one but with differently edited versions and presentations.

But I did see the original statement of claim published by the local Sinai-based sub group of Isis/Daesh who claimed responsibility very swiftly after the crash, within the first 24 hours.

One extra detail that chilled me was the Arabic date on the 'claiming presentation' -- it was the group's assertion it 'brought down' the plane on the first anniversary of the Sinai group's signed allegiance to Isis/Daesh.

Makes it less than random.

Details, but not the original story I read -- http://www.vocativ.com/news/246890/i...t-plane-crash/

Last edited by sopwithnz; 6th Nov 2015 at 21:01. Reason: to address reply to ILS27LEFT and adding url
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 20:52
  #1459 (permalink)  
 
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The mention of a "thermal signature" has me wondering if they are able to do a spectral analysis of the fireball as seen from the satellite. Done right, this can tell the analyst what is burning (at least on the elemental level), and at what temperature.
I'd be shocked if they don't have that capability, but I doubt an announcement is forthcoming. It's really just high school chemistry and physics.
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Old 6th Nov 2015, 20:54
  #1460 (permalink)  
 
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sopwithnz:

The first video released was a fake. It showed a DC9 that crashed in the Congo 8 years ago (or so).
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