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BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

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BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

Old 5th Nov 2015, 19:14
  #1201 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by oldoberon View Post
agree most tail sections are found relatively in tact, and yes I think the departure of the HS is key!

I think it went in two sections the left (already found), did it stress break (unlikely) something hit it engine/TP ?, then still to be found which might give a clue is the the stump of the left HS and whole of the right HS.
Of course it stress broke... that's the definition of stress.. load/area... excessive.
Your point?
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 19:14
  #1202 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Angry from Purley View Post
Slightly off piste but I notice loads of punters stuck in SSH and unable to get home with school kids in toe. Are schools still out or what.....
Wonder if UK schools will be fining parents 60 each

Re baggage following on by courier a week later, where is it going to be stored (there will be a lot of it) who is going to be responsible for it, take it from me it will need guarding if it is anything like Nairobi.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 19:19
  #1203 (permalink)  
 
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IDK if it was here already:



One more door...
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 19:32
  #1204 (permalink)  
 
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to Kulverstukas:

yes, I have seen this earlier, it is linked to the section with the hols, probably from a seat frame
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 19:34
  #1205 (permalink)  
 
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It's 3L, isn't it?
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 19:39
  #1206 (permalink)  
 
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Correct, but this section is in one of the 2 main crash sites.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 19:44
  #1207 (permalink)  
 
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...

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Old 5th Nov 2015, 19:53
  #1208 (permalink)  
 
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So the APU (or certainly parts of it) is inside the cone, I always belived it was
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 20:09
  #1209 (permalink)  
 
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That picture on the previous page is of the LH overwing exit.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 20:13
  #1210 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
I note a lot of posts about holes in structures and speculative conclusions about bombs etc.

Almost every prang that destroys an aircraft has such. The challenge to the investigator is to assess what velocity was involved and by what type of particle origin.

The vast majority originate from aircraft or engine structures that are forced or pushed outward at no more than the impact vector velocity. The tearing fractures along the hole are classic (tensile shear) in this sense.

Explosive impacts (missiles, bombs and/or uncontained engine parts) impact at much higher velocities (over a range). Thus these holes often have the presence of cratering (adiabatic shear etc.) and/or multiple dissimilar impacts over an area near the hole.

The investigators on scene know this and can be expected to comment if seen.

(note: I haven't seen any comments from them at this time)
Assuming it was an explosive device that brought the plane down, it would not be impact damage that would be the major dynamic force of its detonation. It would be the overpressure caused by the expansion of gases,from a combination or decomposition reaction resulting in a exothermic reaction release of energy partially converted to work. Looking at the various images any significant high velocity particle damage is not readily evident and unlikely to have been the agent in such an event as to totally and completely disable the aircraft in such a very short period of time, possibly measured in fractions of a second.
The whole thing looks more likely to have been the work of an explosive device designed to generate rapid overpressure and hot gases rather than brisance. So reminiscent of the Pan Am 103 Lockerbie disaster scenario.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 20:23
  #1211 (permalink)  
 
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Close up of APU section hole

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Old 5th Nov 2015, 20:25
  #1212 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Thermobaric?
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 20:27
  #1213 (permalink)  
 
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Just because we began running circles again can I summarize what we concluded so far?

Spare me of demand for how I get to this, my English is too weak for it.

1. There left only two probable reasons of plane downing
1.1. Some internal structure breakage
1.2. Some explosive device planted into passenger or cargo compartment (thus include lavatories and food trays)

We can't discuss 1.1. until more evidence found/leaked/published

Concerning 1.2. we can't discuss the way device was brought on on board and planted until more info leaked (it it will at all until trial)...
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 20:28
  #1214 (permalink)  
 
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3rd door left

Kulverstukas, this picture is of 3L. Little furter down is lieing that large piece from right side.

There is a picture of pieces we have seen and their approximate location from plane.

It makes me wonder what forces make Vertical stabilizer fail like it has failed? Strongest parts broken away and only weakly connected leading edge left untouched?

black line marks that large piece on the right. dotted line marks that its edges on right side.

On some A321 there is additional center tank installed. it hould be behind wings. after third door.

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Old 5th Nov 2015, 20:35
  #1215 (permalink)  
 
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Prada, what is this vent valve or hinge door?
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 20:37
  #1216 (permalink)  
 
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Prada:

based on the lines that you drew where you show what look to be failure lines ..

If for example only one half of the HS failed/tore off, would the instant imbalance of downward forces from the other half of the HS create enough torsion (twist/torque) on a vertical stab and tail to make it fail along that line/zone ... with the aft bulkhead being strong enough to resist it?

My guess is "no" because the area around the HS has to be a structurally strong part of the aircraft due to the loads the HS puts on it all the time in flight. However, I am doing a back of the napkin guess, and maybe load paths would make that a possibility if the back end experienced a twisting type of load.
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 20:40
  #1217 (permalink)  
 
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A few links to possibly interesting pics. Apologies if already posted.

https://twitter.com/AirCrashMayday/s...22179288260609
The first photo has been discussed here, but I can't recall seeing the second showing the speckling on the door?
EDIT: sorry - previously discussed (somehow missed by me)

https://twitter.com/AirCrashMayday/s...04045237477376
'Taken of passengers'? No verification of source. Note differing light conditions - possibly from earlier flights. (Sunrise was 05:53, plane took off 05:58.)
4th shot - There's some darkening (discolouration/shadow?), however the tail appears repainted from the earlier May 2015 photo showing the 'leak'.

https://twitter.com/jlangdale/status/661694025464942592
This guy has solved it - amazing what you can do with a few coloured arrows...
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 20:41
  #1218 (permalink)  
 
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Breaking news

FDR shows totally normal flight parameters until sudden loss of any signal.

(c) Ъ

So FDR seems of no use, as will be CVR (because of possible cable break in moment of disaster). Only hope now on QAR...
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 20:42
  #1219 (permalink)  
 
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Correct, but this section is in one of the 2 main crash sites.
Where is that Section (3L) located?
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Old 5th Nov 2015, 20:43
  #1220 (permalink)  
 
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If an explosive decompression occurred at the time the first body was ejected it could have disabled both pilots before they could don oxygen masks. The aircraft being on autopilot may continue as before for a short time until damage to the stabilizers caused by other exiting equipment resulted in them breaking away. This could account for the body being found several miles away. Some evidence of this occuring should be on the FDR.
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