Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:08
  #481 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York / Southern France
Age: 66
Posts: 98
Quote:
Is a Mid Air Collision consistent with what (little) we know so far? Somehow seems to be about the only possible scenario not yet discussed.


What is big enough to detach part of A321, can climb to 10 km and at the same time doesn't leave any recognizable parts on the ground after such collision?
The first two are obvious (any military jet, just for one). The second is of course a very good point (also made later by another poster).

Just trying to get a handle on the airline saying "external influence" as a cause, and the range of what that might mean.
AGBagb is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:11
  #482 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,011
http://urgent.metrojet.ru/files/tehd...1102175048.zip

Due to numerous requests of journalists and industry experts we provide technical documentation and documentation of audit Flight 7K-9268. This official documentation, talking about the technical side of serviceability has also been transferred at the request of the Investigative Committee. (с) Metrojet
Kulverstukas is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:12
  #483 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 129
I had been a bit confused about reports of bodies found well apart from the main wreckage as "missing limbs"....but I believe that may be a poor translation of "dislocated limbs"....but my Russian language skills are no longer good enough to read original reports and say for sure.

But dislocated limbs are indeed consistent with ejection into high speed air stream as with the mid-air break up that is now fairly certain.

RIP all.
Smott999 is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:15
  #484 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 2,764
Originally Posted by skridlov View Post
Once again, apologies for my non-professional perspective.
There seems to be an emerging trend (omitting for the moment the foul play options) in the analysis presented by knowledgeable commentators here which would tend to suggest that the locus of failure was somewhere at the rear of the aircraft, adjacent to the pressure bulkhead and stabilisers.

At the same time several photographs have been posted of this aircraft exhibiting very conspicuous hydraulic fluid leakage in the same area, extending - or so it looks to me - to a seam encircling the fuselage. Now back in the day when I operated and maintained heavy earth-moving and mining plant I'd have regarded a hydraulic leak like this as warranting a repair asap - on a bulldozer, much less an aircraft.

Having read most of the posts, including some which have been moderated away, there doesn't appear to be any informed comment suggesting that there may be a correlation between this manifestation and the accident. Which seems pretty surprising to an observer.
I think the general public would be very surprised if they got up close to any 15 year old jet. Evidence of historical leaks are commonplace. It doesn't necessarily mean the aircraft is unsafe.
TURIN is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:15
  #485 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Dry bar
Posts: 351
#482

Stabiliser trim, servo and pulley system? Am I missing something?
shaun ryder is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:16
  #486 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 37
CNN have a picture of the tail section. Not sure how long it'll stay up.


Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News - CNN.com


I don't have time to grab it and post it.


If someone can get there and grab the pic then post it...?
Obba is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:19
  #487 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York / Southern France
Age: 66
Posts: 98
Quote:
Is a Mid Air Collision consistent with what (little) we know so far?


In short, no. Probably that's why it's not discussed. (There would be clear signs, not to mention two sets of smoking wreckage)
Thanks: but it also seems to be the case that, so far, a large chunk of the far rear of the aircraft is also missing from the "wreckage tally".

And - just to be clear, about other posts - I'm not speculating about anything (especially not "US drones".....). Just asking a question that I had not so far seen posed, in the light of what has so far been seen, and said..
AGBagb is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:28
  #488 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: About to move
Posts: 36
What is known about the passengers onboard? Someone travelling incognito?
Possible targets? Russian mafia? Weirder theories have emerged.
Slow and curious is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:29
  #489 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hell
Age: 43
Posts: 14
Large rear chunk

I came across this photo, might fill in the missing "extreme end" question posed.



Almostfamous is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:34
  #490 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 129
That pic of the tail is the same one we've seen many times I believe. VS and empennage.

HS still AWOL....
Smott999 is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:36
  #491 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: France
Posts: 2
CNN have a picture of the tail section. Not sure how long it'll stay up.


Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News - CNN.com


I don't have time to grab it and post it.


If someone can get there and grab the pic then post it...?
(Clickable)

nehoria is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:36
  #492 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,011
Russian mafia?
Ukrainian yakuza...
Kulverstukas is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:39
  #493 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,708
Due to numerous requests of journalists and industry experts we provide technical documentation and documentation of audit Flight 7K-9268. This official documentation, talking about the technical side of serviceability has also been transferred at the request of the Investigative Committee. (с) Metrojet
Looks like log book page A 269918 is missing in the sequence of the last five logbook pages released. Otherwise, the logbook looks clean to me.
Airbubba is online now  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:40
  #494 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 2,764
Originally Posted by shaun ryder View Post
Stabiliser trim, servo and pulley system? Am I missing something?
Yes, I wondered about that myself.

For what it's worth, to the original poster at 482, The stab trim is hydraulically operated normally. Electrical backup IIRC.
TURIN is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:42
  #495 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: EHAM
Posts: 41
@Kulverstukas

From the docs you post ( http://urgent.metrojet.ru/files/tehd...1102175048.zip ) it seems that in 3-2014 a C-check was performed, not the much more thorough D-check, as was stated here before.

Last edited by StuntPilot; 2nd Nov 2015 at 18:51. Reason: link
StuntPilot is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:47
  #496 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WA STATE
Age: 74
Posts: 1
damage ??

the VS damage we see is due to ground impact
Not quite- look at the top section of the VS forward of the rear door. The circumferential "ring" used to join that aft body section to the forward section has clearly failed in tension along a row or two of rivets/bolts used for the join almost half way around. True the bottom part has been bent by ground impact- so it is difficult from just the photo to determine if the lower section ' crumpled ' via compression while the upper part failed in tension.

For a crude comparison - take a pop can- hold it horizontal- push up with your thumbs from the bottom in the center, pulling down on both ends. The lower part fails in compression. Of course the upper part is in tension ( if you scribed it around the top half- it might actually tear the upper half )

Now compare to the aft section photos with part of the vertical stab ..

It takes a lot of force to tear the aft section at the production join - for example a major dive and pull up - or a failure of control surfaces at high speed allowing rudder/elevator to ' flop "

Last edited by CONSO; 2nd Nov 2015 at 18:48. Reason: typos
CONSO is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:47
  #497 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oxford, UK
Age: 41
Posts: 35
Isn't the rudder also AWOL?
igs942 is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:52
  #498 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Midlands
Posts: 113
Smott999

No it's not. That's the tail cone. APU is behind the rear .....
Back at NH is online now  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:53
  #499 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 75
"I came across this photo, might fill in the missing "extreme end" question posed. "

That appears to be the area just fore of the APU and tailcone. Isn't that a fire bottle attached in the middle?
oleostrut is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2015, 18:54
  #500 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ventura, California
Age: 61
Posts: 257
Staining

I don't know what you call the grey area where the HS attaches, but the picture of it in the desert has little or no staining of the paint around it, while in the picture taken earlier this year shows the same area to be heavily stained.
thcrozier is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.