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BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

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BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

Old 2nd Nov 2015, 02:44
  #361 (permalink)  
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Perhaps understandably, the cockpit area has been disturbed
Perhaps both bodies of flight crew were recovered from inverted cockpit, since Egyptians declared no fool play and jumped on assumption of technical problems
The Latest: Co-Pilot's Wife: He Complained About Plane - ABC News
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 05:05
  #362 (permalink)  
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No scorch marks on sand

Melting point of sand is about 1700C. Burning temperature of Jet Fuel is 1500C. Therefore we wouldn't expect to see any scorch marks in the sand
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 05:41
  #363 (permalink)  
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Rumored causes

If at all this plane was brought down by military means ...it is unlikely we will hear anything fkr a long time to come.

Crew- unlikely were a cause.The event must have been so sudden and catastrophic there was no time to communucate it.
Weather..VMC unless CAT or sone sort of mountain wave harboured in its flight path.

Technical- plane manufactured in 1997 wuth 50k+ hours, coupled with suspect naintenance shortcomings as stated by co pilot/wify leaks and the fact that Russia went to ground this type as well as previous manufacturer recall maintenance allloint with a strong bias toward mechanical structural failure as a highly probable event.

What remains ia for DFDR and CVR, naintenance tech log, maintenance history,etc to collaborate the truth.

Lets us not jump to conclusion over terrorism as until this point there us no plausible reason why there should have been a terrorist strike. If there is discontent on the land regarding government it is THEY who would have faced terrorism...not innocent tourism that bring in means of sustaining the tourism economy.Egyptians arent exactly crazy folks.

Let us wait foe the crash analysts and investigators to pronounce their thoughts. Thete us another A320 series that gas crashed sonewhere iff Indonesia. Perhaps we should divert our attention on its active thread instead! This Air Asia crash is bearing a resemblance to a previous disappearing act....

Last edited by Vc10Tail; 2nd Nov 2015 at 05:55.
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 06:29
  #364 (permalink)  
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Bad state of rudder

Originally Posted by AirScotia View Post
This photo of EI-ETJ was apparently taken in May of this year (sorry, can't post picture): Photo Metrojet Airbus A321-231 EI-ETJ

Does the bottom of the rudder look quite as it should?
I agree, AirScotia, I would not want to fly in a plane with the rudder in that state.
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 06:39
  #365 (permalink)  
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Melting point of sand is about 1700C. Burning temperature of Jet Fuel is 1500C. Therefore we wouldn't expect to see any scorch marks in the sand
Aluminium ignites at 1200C.

Aluminium burns at 3800C

Burning Jetfuel leaves black soot.

Burned out plane normally leaves blackened surface with melt aluminium on it.
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 06:42
  #366 (permalink)  
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Some slightly different footage? Hopefully the video should work...
Russian plane said to have broken apart in midair - News - NHK WORLD - English
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 07:20
  #367 (permalink)  
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I realise 50% of the worlds leased fleet are based in Ireland but when it is stated the aircraft EI-ETJ 'passed an IAA safety review' does anyone know what this safety review entails and when it would have been carried out?
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 07:34
  #368 (permalink)  
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Russian plane said to have broken apart in midair - News - NHK WORLD - English

Look at 45 sec to 48 sec on this video run it slow. Enlarge the video
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 07:48
  #369 (permalink)  
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Look at 45 sec to 48 sec on this video run it slow.
...and your point is... ?
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 07:52
  #370 (permalink)  
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What are we supposed to see?
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 07:53
  #371 (permalink)  
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41 Queens ... one does have to be careful with grainy footage, but I must say it does look like they are placing a ruler and carefully photographing an small area that resembles an impact site on the wing.

Having said that, if true, that does not mean the source was external to the aircraft.
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 08:08
  #372 (permalink)  
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Who would have the motive?

Who would have a motive for shooting down a Russian plane ?
Umm.. ISIS?

They are the ones claiming responsibility. And Russia did just launch a massive barrage against them.

The warnings given to German carriers only warned about flying below FL260 in the area of this flight and this flight was above that but anything's possible.

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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 08:20
  #373 (permalink)  
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The latest Daily Mail article quotes one of the posts on here ("StopStart" post 233 on 1st Nov 2015, 11:47):

"An aviation expert writing on PPRuNe, an internet forum for professional pilots, claimed the tail section of the aircraft shows evidence of 'the fuselage skin peeling outwards possibly indicative of a force acting outwards from within'."

So was it a bomb? Experts reveal Russian passenger plane broke up at high altitude - as the bodies of 144 victims are flown back to St Petersburg | Daily Mail Online
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 09:02
  #374 (permalink)  
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After the Malaysia shoot-down, one wonders why anyone would consider flying over an active conflict zone at any level. Can you really be certain of the weaponry they have in that region? Why not fly up the Gulf to the Delta and the Med, and then plot a course home? Are costs that tight, that you have to take the direct and more risky route?

Last edited by tatelyle; 2nd Nov 2015 at 09:31.
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 09:04
  #375 (permalink)  
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Russian airline blames cause on external activity.

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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 09:05
  #376 (permalink)  
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I'm not in aviation however given what's plainly visible in the last photograph, I'm surprised there has been no comment, assuming this really is the same aircraft. What appears to be discoloration on the VS base extending down around a seam encircling the tail-cone join (sorry if this is incorrect nomenclature).
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 09:16
  #377 (permalink)  
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Kolavia reps told on briefing they hold now that plane was checked in tail area for repair of structural damage condition in 2014 as part of D-Check.
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 09:21
  #378 (permalink)  
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The list of tailstrikes from The Aviation Herald in recent years posted by thcrozier makes interesting reading.

Of 45 incidents, 18 are on landing, 20 on takeoff, and 7 unspecified. Despite a non-engineering background, it would seem likely that a landing tailstrike carries a much greater risk of damage to the aircraft's structure, with possible long term consequences. Indeed some take off incidents are described as "tailscrapes"

Certain aircraft types seem more prone to these incidents, though the denominator number of fleet size must also be factored in. For most types there have only been one or two incidents, but the B738 has had 8 takeoff tailstrikes and two landing tailstrikes (fleet 3800+) compared to A320/321 with zero takeoff tailstrikes and four landing tailstrikes for each variant (fleets 4000+ and 1100+) The A319 seems to have been tailstrike free for the years that this list covers.

My question for the professionals would be this - is there any objective way of measuring the force involved in a particular tailstrike?
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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 09:24
  #379 (permalink)  
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Hope it is NOT the Tail Strike

For the sake of all the other AC flying today that have had tailstrikes, I hope that this does not resolve to be from the tail strike and repair.

I am prepared to wait on an official report, so will not speculate (yet).

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Old 2nd Nov 2015, 09:31
  #380 (permalink)  
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Photo in Daily Mail

Did a BOMB blow apart Russian Metrojet plane in Sinai? | Daily Mail Online

Front of aircraft part of cockpit is inverted

Burned out wing also looks to be inverted

Tail section separate debris field, loss of rudder, elevators or rear pressure bulkhead?
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