Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

JAL 767 crew mistook Changi taxiway for runway

Wikiposts
Search
Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

JAL 767 crew mistook Changi taxiway for runway

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 31st Jul 2015, 21:18
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Luckily I fly in the normal world, and the two times this happened to me, nothing was reported by anyone. Just the way it should be.
I prefer not to have any sort of STASI reporting non events to anyone.

A take off event on a taxiway is a reportable incident.
ManaAdaSystem is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2015, 09:16
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brexitland
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Had a situation once when very new to the 744. Hit the TOGA switches when not quite ( BGS) lined up. Aborted at very low speed due TO config warning. Taxi back to normal TO point and lined up properly. FC pax on flight deck so a little embarrassing but properly sorted with no further probs.
Arfur Dent is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2015, 17:57
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Did they follow the greens to line up on EP instead of 20C perhaps?
Looks like my initial hunch was correct:

Incident: JAL B763 at Singapore on Jul 12th 2015, rejected takeoff from taxiway

By Simon Hradecky, created Wednesday, Jul 29th 2015 11:15Z, last updated Wednesday, Jul 29th 2015 11:15Z

A JAL Japan Airlines Boeing 767-300, registration JA606J performing flight JL-38 from Singapore (Singapore) to Tokyo Haneda (Japan) with 198 passengers and 10 crew, had taxied from the gate to depart runway 20C via taxiway WA (parallel to runway 20R), NC2 (North Cross 2) and was turning onto taxiway EP parallel to runway 20L [and parallel to 20C which it is next to, 20L is over on the military side - Airbubba] at about 02:25L (18:25Z Jul 11th) when the crew received takeoff clearance for runway 20C. Tower controller noticed the aircraft was accelerating for takeoff on taxiway EP reaching about 25 knots over ground, instructed the crew to stop and taxi onto runway 20C. The aircraft departed runway 20C about 6 minutes later and reached Tokyo Haneda with a total delay of 20 minutes.
A nice spaghetti bowl taxi diagram in the original article here:

Incident: JAL B763 at Singapore on Jul 12th 2015, rejected takeoff from taxiway

An eerie resemblance (but with a better outcome) to Singapore 006 in Taipei - big jet, creeping along in the dark, makes a right turn, gets take-off clearance - and the crew thinks they're on the runway.
Another similar incident, with nobody hurt, was Dynasty at ANC. They were cleared to takeoff on the customary runway 32 (now runway 33) at Kilo and they took off on taxiway Kilo instead:

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/1...-take-off.html
Airbubba is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2016, 13:12
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: nowhere
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Taxiway Departure Attempt Triggers Changes At JAL, Changi | MRO content from Aviation Week

No more "Follow the Greens" taxi clearances.
JammedStab is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2016, 13:21
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 1A
Posts: 8,559
Received 76 Likes on 44 Posts
Report:

http://www.mot.gov.sg/uploadedFiles/...l%20Report.pdf

Originally Posted by Report
It cannot be over-emphasised that thorough planning for taxi operations is essential for a safe operation.
Pardon? They planned it but got sent another way, which bamboozled the PF/FO. Surely you would be better not planning the taxiout until you get your route from ATC?

No more "Follow the Greens" taxi clearances.
"It is recommended that the ATC consider verbalising the main taxi route in addition to the instruction to “taxi on the greens” in the taxi clearance."

Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 17th Sep 2016 at 13:44.
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2016, 22:22
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Great Southern Land
Age: 73
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Personally I found SIN easy to taxi around with either follow the the greens or a verbal clearance. I can't say the same for JFK.
Offchocks is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2016, 02:32
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 日本
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
They planned it but got sent another way, which bamboozled the PF/FO. Surely you would be better not planning the taxiout until you get your route from ATC?
I agree but that is not the Japanese way, at least not in ANA or JAL. They insist on briefing the expected taxi route and then get flustered when it changes. I believe every one of their briefings sets them up for a classic confirmation bias trap and it is not unusual to hear them going the way they expected, rather than the way they were instructed. A mate of mine could not get the idiot he was flying with (luckily he's gone now) to listen to what he was trying to tell him. ATC had given contrary taxi instructions to those briefed and although my mate was quite specific in telling the Japanese captain that he was going the wrong way (i.e. the way he'd briefed, rather than the route given by ATC) he continued. My mate actually called and asked for confirmation.......guess where Captain Confirmation Bias went, still ignoring his PM! Funny how a 777 looks coming head on down the same taxiway.

Looking at the green and yellow lines on the report's diagram leads me to think they thought they were turning right onto the runway (as briefed and expected......C B ) but, clearly, they failed to follow their exact progress.

As for not reporting it........I believe ANA and JAL would be similar in their outlook and I would have no hesitation in submitting a report. There would be some form of investigation, as you would expect but I do not believe it would be punitive and I do not ever get the feeling that I'm going to be punished for making a mistake. This has all the marks of face-saving; nothing else, and despite all their talk about cultural changes to rid themselves of such outdated ways of thinking it's a VERY slow process and won't be happening any time soon (measured in centuries).
Fratemate is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.