Stowaway on BA
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We mention 30000 feet but that is unrealistically low for a jet for anything other than the shortest route.
More likely between 34K and 40K where with a depressurisation and no oxygen you have a survival rate in seconds not minutes.
Again the temperatures are likely to be -50 C to -60 in the winter and maybe -35 in hot climates
How anyone can survives for hours I don't know
More likely between 34K and 40K where with a depressurisation and no oxygen you have a survival rate in seconds not minutes.
Again the temperatures are likely to be -50 C to -60 in the winter and maybe -35 in hot climates
How anyone can survives for hours I don't know
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These guys have lived their lives in hot&high conditions so their bodies have a density altitude advantage of up to 10,000 feet over us sea level types.
Maybe (IANADoctor) this gives them the margin to survive.
Maybe (IANADoctor) this gives them the margin to survive.
There seems to be a general assumption that both stowaways were on the same BA flight.
But I see no evidence that the body found on the roof was from the same plane as the survivor. He could have come from almost anywhere.
But I see no evidence that the body found on the roof was from the same plane as the survivor. He could have come from almost anywhere.
Unfortunate gentleman probably did not "fall to his death" more than likely was already dead and the body fell out of under bay as it came down?
As said above, there can't be many places to hide in a undercarriage bay?
How many have been crushed by the gear?
As said above, there can't be many places to hide in a undercarriage bay?
How many have been crushed by the gear?
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Technical question:
Are the wheel brakes applied before or during gear up, or are the wheels just allowed to spin down?
Being in intimate company with four or six rapidly revolving wheels would no doubt further increase the risk of a fatal outcome.
Are the wheel brakes applied before or during gear up, or are the wheels just allowed to spin down?
Being in intimate company with four or six rapidly revolving wheels would no doubt further increase the risk of a fatal outcome.
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BA seem to have trouble with Jo'berg.
On the 744 when the gear is selected up the gear doors open. When the gear doors are open a hydraulic sequence valve positioned by the right hand doors ports hydraulics to an actuator (de-spin actuator) which actuates the alternate brake metering valve in the r/h wheel well which is meant to stop the wheels spinning before the gear is swung into the wheel bay. The braking pressure on retraction is sufficient to stop the wheels turning within a revolution.
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All in all a pretty dumb and stupid way to try and get a better life as you are almost 100% guaranteed to have NO life attempting such a stunt.
You have to question the mentality of people who attempt stuff like this is it pure ignorance ? Maybe they think they can breathe as well at sea level as at 38 K ( People inside the aircraft breathe so we can too) ? Maybe they think the temperature at sea level will stay the same at 38K?
Maybe their decision process is the same as jumping into the back of a lorry to cross a border and they are ignorant of the science
Google is your best friend! You must have a plan and research is part of that plan. Whatever it must be the most frightening experience once the reality kicks in.
They are people like the rest of us just desperate for a better life and hear of that better life very sad
You have to question the mentality of people who attempt stuff like this is it pure ignorance ? Maybe they think they can breathe as well at sea level as at 38 K ( People inside the aircraft breathe so we can too) ? Maybe they think the temperature at sea level will stay the same at 38K?
Maybe their decision process is the same as jumping into the back of a lorry to cross a border and they are ignorant of the science
Google is your best friend! You must have a plan and research is part of that plan. Whatever it must be the most frightening experience once the reality kicks in.
They are people like the rest of us just desperate for a better life and hear of that better life very sad
Last edited by Pace; 20th Jun 2015 at 07:14.
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Re Post 32
Its not behind the realms of possibilities that if a stowaway can clamber aboard a 744 on the taxiway or whatever he could also have explosives on his person,just my thoughts.
An unpressurised wheel-well isn't survivable, so I'm guessing the other guy must have been in the hold?
One in four plane stowaways can survive, but London case is astonishing | World news | The Guardian
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Its not behind the realms of possibilities that if a stowaway can clamber aboard a 744 on the taxiway or whatever he could also have explosives on his person,just my thoughts.
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Altitude - Moderate Activity - Sitting Quietly
25 000 feet - 2 minutes - 3 minutes
28 000 feet - 1 minute - 1.5 minutes
30 000 feet - 45 seconds - 1.25 minutes
35 000 feet - 30 seconds - 45 seconds
40 000 feet - 18 seconds - 30 seconds
45,000 feet - ?? seconds - ?? seconds
25 000 feet - 2 minutes - 3 minutes
28 000 feet - 1 minute - 1.5 minutes
30 000 feet - 45 seconds - 1.25 minutes
35 000 feet - 30 seconds - 45 seconds
40 000 feet - 18 seconds - 30 seconds
45,000 feet - ?? seconds - ?? seconds
further information released today in the media the Jets average level for the flight was FL350. Duration 8 hours !!!!!! average temp was -55C
As I quoted in my earlier post loss of pressurisation at 35,000 feet before loss of consciousness is measured in seconds not minutes never mind 8 hours
quoted was the fact that the only survival possible was access to a baggage hold ? Is this possible from the nose gear area ? To access a pressurised area from a non pressurised area ?
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This is a very serious and ignored point by the media that these stowaways could be an opening for suicide bombers ?
But it is a security issue that these two people could get close enough to the plane to do all kind of nasty things to it, including jumping on board.
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Mathfox
It demonstrates with the huge security industry which has evolved since 9/11 all the time we waste at airports and the $billions lost in that time in security checks baggage checks, fluid checks, personal X rays etc.
Where there is a will there will be a way for someone intent on downing an aircraft to do so.
I wonder with aviation whether the security or the industry has become more important? I suspect the industry!
Living in London in a multi cultural society it horrifies me to see the millions boarding the London tubes, packed like sardines on a friday night.
Every ethnicity and religious background allowed to drag cases and handluggage onto the trains totally unchecked but with potential equal damage and loss of life to any aircraft.
We have had the Lubitz murder where systems designed to keep PAX without kept the terrorist pilot within.
As stated where there is a will there will always be a way! Concerning aviation I am convinced the security industry has become all important not the security
It demonstrates with the huge security industry which has evolved since 9/11 all the time we waste at airports and the $billions lost in that time in security checks baggage checks, fluid checks, personal X rays etc.
Where there is a will there will be a way for someone intent on downing an aircraft to do so.
I wonder with aviation whether the security or the industry has become more important? I suspect the industry!
Living in London in a multi cultural society it horrifies me to see the millions boarding the London tubes, packed like sardines on a friday night.
Every ethnicity and religious background allowed to drag cases and handluggage onto the trains totally unchecked but with potential equal damage and loss of life to any aircraft.
We have had the Lubitz murder where systems designed to keep PAX without kept the terrorist pilot within.
As stated where there is a will there will always be a way! Concerning aviation I am convinced the security industry has become all important not the security
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Years ago on a 707 at Lagos people opened a hold of the aircraft, not in order to stow away, but to steal the luggage and freight; despite four running engines.
On another occasion an aircraft at high speed clobbered a pedestrian on the active runway. The person was taking the shortest way home on a much used route.
It is not surprising to find ignorance of the likely consequences of their actions; you'll find a similar degree of lack of knowledge in wide percentages of the population, irrespective of country.
It's pretty obvious to me that the present people were simply attempting to find a better life for themselves.
As for security then how much do we hobble ourselves, restrict our lives, just in case? You cannot have perfect security.
On another occasion an aircraft at high speed clobbered a pedestrian on the active runway. The person was taking the shortest way home on a much used route.
It is not surprising to find ignorance of the likely consequences of their actions; you'll find a similar degree of lack of knowledge in wide percentages of the population, irrespective of country.
It's pretty obvious to me that the present people were simply attempting to find a better life for themselves.
As for security then how much do we hobble ourselves, restrict our lives, just in case? You cannot have perfect security.