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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:05
  #841 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
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just curious...

From the NY Times

A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.

“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”

He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”

While the audio seemed to give some insight into the circumstances leading up to the Germanwings crash, it also left many questions unanswered.

"We don’t know yet the reason why one of the guys went out,” said the official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is continuing. "But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is alone and does not open the door."
Why would a 'senior military official' be involved in the investigation?
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:06
  #842 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Con Catenator View Post
If there was a pilot outside the flight deck, with the appropriate company knowledge, he could have got back in.
Even if the PF actively wanted to prevent access?
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:06
  #843 (permalink)  
 
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In our terrorism fears have we now made a terrible blunder by having a cockpit door that can only be opened by the other pilot? What if he's incapacitated?
If he's incapacitated, the other pilot can get in. Entrance can only be inhibited by a conscious pilot on the flight deck.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:07
  #844 (permalink)  
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:08
  #845 (permalink)  
 
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Why would a 'senior military official' be involved in the investigation?
1) They just loooove their army guys on that side of the pond. He might as well be retired.

2) His civilian life has earned him a place in the investigation due to his expertise.

Could be simple as that.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:17
  #846 (permalink)  
 
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Neektu:---- some Airlines already do just that.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:18
  #847 (permalink)  
 
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This accident rates as a CFIT (controlled flight in to terrain) accident, with possible unlawful interference, (partial) crew incapacitation, and/or loss of situational awareness.

The Airbus seemed to be in a technically flyable state.

For all you putnuckers, Airbus illiterates and PPL holders, please take it from there.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:20
  #848 (permalink)  
 
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The BEA's Rémi Jouty answers the question about a possible loss of cabin pressure at about
2:37:00 in the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAQOSveCJqc

My translation (not that different from the CNN one, but maybe a little clearer). Original French text is below translation:

ENGLISH:

Q: Do you have any information that indicates a loss of cabin pressure?

JOUTY: At this stage I don't have anything that begins to indicate a scenario and...[pauses]...without going into the details...[pauses]...I'm not able to put together - just like that - a reasoned scenario - and, incidentally, I refuse to do so because I don't want to go off in a direction which might prove to be wrong - for a loss of cabin pressure which corresponds directly to that - a standard scenario for a loss of cabin pressure.

Inaudible questions (presumably following up the first question about loss of cabin pressure)

JOUTY: I'm not able to put together, and I refuse to try to put together, a standard scenario for a loss of cabin pressure which corresponds to the information we have.

FRENCH:

Q: Est-ce que vous avez des éléments en faveur de la dépressurisation?
JOUTY: À ce stade-là, je n'ai aucun début de scénario et.... sans rentrer dans les détails... je ne sais pas construire comme ça intellectuellement - et d'ailleurs je m'y refuse pour pas partir dans une direction qui pourrait se révéler erronée - un scénario de dépressurisation qui collerait directement avec ça - un scénario standard de dépressurisation.

Question inaudible
JOUTY: Je ne sais pas construire et je m'interdis de chercher à construire un scénario standard de dépressurisation qui collerait avec ces éléments-là.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:23
  #849 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Finbarr View Post
Don't know much about Airbuses (I was a Boeing man myself) and I have neither the time nor the patience to wade through 40+ pages of the usual drivel - but surely the only explanation is suicide by one of the pilots? Odd that nothing has been said about them unlike MH370. And thanks to the "aviation expert" in today's Times who's told the world what discrete transponder codes we use. Good grief!
If you don't have the time or patience to read back, then I respectfully suggest that you "surely" shut up instead of commenting: "...surely the only explanation is suicide by one of the pilots...". There are many, many possible explanantions being investigated. Good grief!!
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:23
  #850 (permalink)  
 
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in some countries when a pilot leaves cockpit a flight attendant comes up to the cockpit to sit with the other pilot. I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS DONE IN GERMANWINGS LAND, perhaps someone will comment.


A return to a 3 member cockpit crew should be considered ;-)
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:25
  #851 (permalink)  
 
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If the Pilot is incapacitated in the cockpit then there are proceedures to enable other Pilot to get back in......so having a cabin crew inside only makes it faster.....


However If the Pilot inside has bad intentions then the other ain't getting back in........
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:29
  #852 (permalink)  
 
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Reported in our local newspaper (attributed to New York Times):

AS investigators go through the audio recovered from one of the Germanwings black boxes, reports have emerged that one of the pilots became locked out of the cockpit and was unable to get back in.

The New York Times reports that a senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Dusseldorf.

The audio then seems to reveal one of the pilots left the cockpit and was unable to get back in.

“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”

He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”

The cause of the crash, which killed all 150 people on board, is still unclear and it’s hoped the answers to many questions will be contained in the black boxes.

“We don’t know yet the reason why one of the guys went out,” said the official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is continuing. “But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is alone and does not open the door.”

Almost 600 gendarmes and other police and rescue groups were yesterday involved in inspecting the site of Flight 9525 deep in the French Alps and unravelling what may have happened from the moment it took off from Barcelona to its crash about an hour later on Tuesday en route to Dusseldorf.

The last communication from the doomed jetliner was routine. The mangled black box has yielded sounds and voices, the lead investigator said, but so far not the “slightest explanation” why the plane plunged into an Alpine mountainside.

No Cookies | The Courier-Mail
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:30
  #853 (permalink)  
 
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The non professional pilot comments on this thread are exasperating... Can we just leave it to the professionals please? Airliners.net is awaiting the rest of you.

I'm staggered that there appear to be airlines where a cabin crew member is not required to be in the cockpit when a flight crew member leaves.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:32
  #854 (permalink)  
 
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Britain's ITV news is now reporting the news about the pilot possibly being locked out of the cockpit:

Airbus pilot 'heard trying to smash cockpit door open' - ITV News
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:34
  #855 (permalink)  
 
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Mirage on scene?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10131891.html

French Transport Minister Ségolène Royal confirmed a French military Mirage jet fighter had investigated soon after the aircraft stopped respondingat 10.30am. The warplane was seen by eyewitnesses, following the airliner as it skimmed the Alpine ridges before it crashed. The pilot of the Mirage could, therefore, also possess crucial information on the Germanwings aircraft’s behaviour.
Note the last line is commentry by the writer, it is not confirmation (beyond the eyewitness) that a Mirage caught up to and tracked the flight.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:34
  #856 (permalink)  
 
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Wasnt it the NYT that reported that the Captain of the Air Asia A320 was out of his seat pulling circuit breakers, then they retracted the story. In the absence of official confirmation I call BS. All the media outlets such as ITV are quoting the NYT! If the NYT has it wrong then they all have it wrong.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:39
  #857 (permalink)  
 
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Neektu

Richard Quest is [email protected]&$/-:g on TV, as usual. "When one guy leaves the flight deck, another person (a flight attendant, I presume) would enter it in order to always have two people in there!" Where does that come from?
In the US there's protocal requiring a FA to be upfront if the other pilot has to leave the cockpit. Perhaps he assumed that's the same everywhere.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:49
  #858 (permalink)  
 
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If it s true that one pilot is lockout....
The pilot inside incap......hands and/or body push sidestick full forward causing the dive
otherwise intentional CFIT..
The autopilot will happily fly at FL380 till fuel starvation..
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:52
  #859 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chucko View Post
CNN (on their Website) cites the New York Times for the cockpit lock-out story, not any of their own sources.
The longer they go without saying: "CNN can't confirm this with our own sources", the more likely they are hearing likewise.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:56
  #860 (permalink)  
 
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pilot murderers?

.... if germanwings with 150 on board is added to egyptair 590 with 217 on board and (maybe) Malaysia 370 with 239 on board, the total killed by pilot murderers will be double the number of airline passengers killed by terrorist murderers during the same period (since 1999)

perhaps passengers would be safer with access to cockpits.
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