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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:41
  #821 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Moar data, plz

Did the a/c not level off at some stage during descent ? If yes how can that be explained?
Publicly available data are too coarse, so far, and unofficial, but the flight appears to have maintained a roughly 3500-fpm average descent, constant heading and cruise power, according to public ADS-B data. We'll have a better idea in a day or so...

Be nice if they can find usable FDR data.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:45
  #822 (permalink)  
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I stand corrected. Jouty did not say any such thing. The media made that from what he said.

He actually said he did not want to be drawn into whether decompression was a major factor.

The CNN transcript (translation, thank you DCP123) CNN.com - Transcripts actually states:
JOUTY: At the moment, no. Beginning of an idea. And without going into details, I can't elaborate intellectually and I wouldn't want to do it so as not to go along a path which might be wrong. A depressurization scenario, which might stand in depressurization scenario. I can't elaborate and I refuse to try. A standard depressurization scenario which might tie in with these elements.

It s a poor translation but the gist is clear: Jouty did not wish to confirm or deny decompression was a factor.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:46
  #823 (permalink)  
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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

One pilot locked out of cockpit apparently.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:46
  #824 (permalink)  
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Questions that nag me

I seem to recall all major crashes over the last years always rapidly revealed the names of the pilots, their experience etc., in fact it was generally one of the first things that would come out, as a means of showing the airline is professional and experienced. This is not the case in this instance. No names have been given so far. This puzzles me.

The Head of the investigation today said that he believes there was no "classic decompression situation". If he means by this that there was no situation whereby the crew is incapacitated by a (sudden) decompression, what caused them to be incapacitated without an apparent ability to leave the heading and aim towards a suitable airfield?

In a decompression the cabin masks drop automatically. At a descent rate of 3500 ft/min would there be enough oxygen to stay alert till say 12,000ft? Assuming at least one of the crew also managed to stay alert, would their instinct not be to try and enter the cockpit if she/he failed to raise the pilots on the intercom?

Can flight crew block the door in such a way that the cabin crew (and possibly also the non-flying pilot) cannot re enter the cockpit?

For now it is still most troubling....
Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 -> Date: 8 - 3-2014
Name of the pilot released -> Date: 8 - 3-2014

We have been told Nothing about the co pilot . No name and no mention of flying hours....... All we know is the pilot had 10 years/10000 hours...

No passenger lists either.....
One would assume, for the likes of Sky News that the lack of this information would be more intriguing than the actual information itself.

If it were being withheld, we'd know about it.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:47
  #825 (permalink)  
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CNN reporting US sources say one pilot was locked out of the cockpit.

Only reporting what they just said not endorsing.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:48
  #826 (permalink)  
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NYT: One pilot was locked out

NYT has reporting based on sources familiar with the CVR contents:

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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:48
  #827 (permalink)  
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From the NY Times

A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.

“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”

He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”

While the audio seemed to give some insight into the circumstances leading up to the Germanwings crash, it also left many questions unanswered.

"We don’t know yet the reason why one of the guys went out,” said the official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is continuing. "But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is alone and does not open the door."
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:50
  #828 (permalink)  
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There have been comments of around 12 secs of useful consciousness after an explosive decompression. Ignoring all the other chaos in the cockpit for a moment ( noise, debris, panic, cold etc ) why would pilots lose consciousness so quickly when people can swim underwater for much longer than this.
This is because of various factors.

Essentially, your heart continues to pump blood through the tiny exchange capillaries in the alveoli in your lungs where it comes into close contact with air over a large surface area. Normally there is a higher partial pressure (amount) of oxygen in the air than in your blood and due to diffusion the oxygen moves from high 'concentration' in the air to low 'concentration' in the blood and combines with hemoglobin.

If you change the atmospheric conditions such that there is a lower partial pressure of oxygen outside the body to that in the blood (ie 40000ft) the opposite will happen and the oxygen attached to the haemoglobin will actually dissociate and you will breath it out. Essentially things go down concentration gradients from high to low - diffusion.

Also other pathological changes occur as gases which are dissolved (such as nitrogen) will dissolve and cause nasty problems (due to Henry's law). Not to mention enormous amounts of adrenaline and potential trauma upping your demands for O2.

Its very very different from taking a deep breath and putting your head in the sink whilst your mate times 4 minutes.

See: When Humans Fly High: What Pilots Should Know About High-Altitude Physiology, Hypoxia, and Rapid Decompression - AVweb Features Article for a decent guide.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:53
  #829 (permalink)  
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The NY Times is not just any newspaper.

If this is reliable information we have the answer why the plane crashed. What we still don't know is who was flying and was he/she incapacitated physically or mentally.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:54
  #830 (permalink)  
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Angry Oh great

Now we have CNN and NYT with first person knowledge. Neither is known for accurate reporting in such cases. CNN apparently needed something to replace MH-370 etc.

Think I'll wait for a partial transcript of CVR from an authorized source
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:54
  #831 (permalink)  
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So there was no depressurisation or the cockpit door would have opened automatically.
Victims of secure cockpit door policy.
Now we know why the names are withheld.
It's looking deliberate as the only way to stop the door from opening is to be awake inside.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:55
  #832 (permalink)  
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I for one are even more interested in the other pilot's details, on hearing this. If it is unlawful interference, then we all have a deepening problem, which must be addressed ASAP.

The bad guys seem to have us running around like headless chickens. Have done for years.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:55
  #833 (permalink)  
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courtesy of DCP123

It appears that BEA head Remi Jouty never said what the Guardian and some others have reported he said ruling out decompression. The transcript here - http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../25/se.01.html - is questionably translated or perhaps he was terribly clear, but he was declining to speculate, not denying the possibility. The translation would have to be incredibly for his actual statement to be a statement that there was no decompression event or no "classical" decompression event.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:57
  #834 (permalink)  
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In our terrorism fears have we now made a terrible blunder by having a cockpit door that can only be opened by the other pilot? What if he's incapacitated?
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 00:59
  #835 (permalink)  
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Either they had to descend or chose to descend

If the had to descend for what ever reason then its inconceivable that they would not contact ATC

If the chose to descend for operational reasons then again its inconceivable that they would have done so without ATC clearance, hence no sensible explanation

So the non sensible explantation is top of climb one pilot leaves the flight deck for a pee, the other pilot either a) has a problem and cocks it up or b) the remaining pilots decides to end it all for all on board.........by denying access to flight deck.

Locked cockpit doors if so will have killed more than terrorists........
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 01:00
  #836 (permalink)  
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There are proceedures in place to cater for that situation.

If the Pilot inside inside doesn't want to let someone in deliberately then..........
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 01:01
  #837 (permalink)  
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If this was a deliberate act I am deeply saddened by whatever reasons a persons may have to commit the most despicable act of them all: murder-suicide. There is no way to justify murdering other people because of your... any reason, actually.

Regarding the depressurisation debate: Mr BEA (Remi something) said neither this nor that about depressurisation, and I watched (and understood) that part. Unfortunately something must have been wrong with the audio during the press conference because I had to max both YouTube audio and my computer speakers and still I had problems hearing properly.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 01:02
  #838 (permalink)  
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If there was a pilot outside the flight deck, with the appropriate company knowledge, he could have got back in.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 01:03
  #839 (permalink)  
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CNN (on their Website) cites the New York Times for the cockpit lock-out story, not any of their own sources.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 01:05
  #840 (permalink)  
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Cannot override a manual bolt on the wrong side of a door. Oh dear. I hope this is uninformed speculation.
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