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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Old 25th Mar 2015, 20:32
  #761 (permalink)  
 
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i expected on every check ride I took in 30 years, after I got off the fire breathing Martin 404, that an emergency descent would be given.

The first thing I did at the beginning of my flow on a line trip was to check the emergency oxygen system by putting the mask on and taking a big gulp.

I was not alone. This was standard at the three airlines I flew for.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 20:32
  #762 (permalink)  
 
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There maybe clues in the fact that the rapid descent started not long after reaching the TOC at FL380.

Most crew won't leave their positions until the aircraft is established in the cruise being occupied in the procedures and monitoring during the climb.

I know in the small corporate jet I fly one of us doesn't leave our seats to go back and attend the PAX requirements until we have levelled.

Had one pilot gone back to the toilets the other pilot should have donned an oxygen mask so with no audible voice interaction between the crew might indicate that there was one pilot up front during the depressurisation.

I do not buy the suicide theory on the basis that had the aircraft not been depressurised then the other crew member would have gained access back into the cockpit.

So reaching cruise level could indicate more than the most likely point for a depressurisation. One pilot would also explain the lack of any call to ATC as one pilot would have their hands full! ATC being the last thing on the list
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 20:45
  #763 (permalink)  
 
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Hypoxia for pilots and for passengers.

Time of useful consciousness is only an immediate issue for the flight crew member, especially the pilot.

Exceeding that time without adequate O2 pressure is not necessarily fatal or terribly dangerous to a passenger strapped in a cabin seat with no responsibilities.

For the pilot though, the ability to control the airplane and make timely and correct decisions is immediately affected ...with serious consequences, of course.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 20:53
  #764 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NigelOnDraft

1.Receive and document the CVR condition
2.Determine how to dismantle the CVR given it's condition
3.Technically treat the CVR innards with the highest level of care, and with minimum risk, attempt to extract data
4.In the event you get data, preserve and document that data (backups, file characteristics)
5.Using a copy of the data, check it is readable / valid data i.e. not blank or corrupt
6.Preliminary assessment of the data - timings, matching to other data, clear / easy to interpret output
7.Process of establishing formal transcript
The above is a guess, but I got the impression we are somewhere about 3 from the bottom. When we get second from bottom, there will be political and commercial implications of releasing the info.
On top of that, being in a country with a judicial system based on the Napoleonic Code, you have to ensure the chain of custody of any piece of evidence and coordinate any test with the judiciary authority, whether you like it or not.
See the seals and the pink document of the judiciary authority on the case used to transport the CVR:
http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol....hoto.cvr.1.jpg
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 20:54
  #765 (permalink)  
 
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Rémi Jouty is a BEA spokesperson.
Actually he is Head of BEA, and a well known aviation expert for decades.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:09
  #766 (permalink)  
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i don't want to give away too much, but the cabin manager can definitely enter the flightdeck post depressurisation.
 
Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:11
  #767 (permalink)  
 
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Such small pieces
Airliner at 300+ kts into a mountain? It's a tremendous amount of kinetic energy expended nearly instantly. Not much is going to remain intact.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:12
  #768 (permalink)  
 
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Are there other instances such a violent impact that caused such shocking break up?
The more I see the images, the more astounded I am by the number of such widely spread out tiny pieces of wreckage.
I suppose it is safe to assume that there are plenty of images that we won't see in the public domain but I'd have expected some larger pieces considering that it didn't hit a flat surface
If an aircraft hits a hard surface at high velocity this is exactly what to expect. If it hits a soft surface there may be no trace of the aircraft. That is certainly the case for a fighter jet which "tent-pegs" at transonic speed.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:15
  #769 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder what the flight path is when spoilers are opened and autopilot is in cruise mode....
Partially conscious crew might have operated brakes to get back to thicker air... works for glider pilots as a get you down slower method.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:33
  #770 (permalink)  
 
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The devil is in the detail

Not a pilot just interested in aviation, but even I can work out that if I can drive my car at 10 mph into my bendable gate post and leave a massive dent, expecting something of the mass of an A320 to survive in large pieces having flown into an unbendable rock wall at over 300 mph shows a certain lack in the joined up thinking department. I also note the very carefully worded statement that rules out a 'classic' depressurization situation. I think 'classic' is the key word here and could speak volumes.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:44
  #771 (permalink)  
 
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The A320 involved (D-AIPX, MSN147, ff 29.11.1990) was close to the Airbus quoted Flight Hours (FH) and Flight Cycles (FC) as intended Design Service Goal (DSG) according to another contributor (FH 58,300 hours, 46,700 FC, Airbus DSG 60,000 hours, 48,000 FC). As far as I understand the extension to service life has/had two phases. Phase I (Interim Service Goal, ISG, tradeoff of FH and FC) requiring an inspection and Phase II (ESG I) requiring airframe modifications. Had D-AIPX undergone both ESG (Extended Service Goal) phases? What kind of modifications are required for ESG I?

D-AIPX had just reached FL380 close to its certified max service ceiling, when things started to go wrong.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:46
  #772 (permalink)  
 
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On the Italian press and on other several international newspapers it is said that after the first impression they got from listening the CVR ( there are voices and among them the last contact with the ATC ....) the explosive decompression is ruled out... so what?? ...they already know what was the cause ??
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:49
  #773 (permalink)  
 
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On the Italian press and on other several international newspapers it is said that after the first impression they got from listening the CVR ( there are voices and among them the last contact with the ATC ....) the explosive decompression is ruled out... so what?? ...they already know what was the cause ??
Ruling out explosive decompression does not rule out rapid or slow decompression.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:52
  #774 (permalink)  
 
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any loss of structural integrity (e.g. windscreen or other) started in coincidence with reaching max cabin pressure differential with the outside pressure. This timing cannot be a coincidence
NLG bulkhead failure?

Re: the head of the BEA not having listened to the CVR: The head of BEA would not listen to the CVR unless and until the tech specialists whom he hired to do so could explain in the detail exactly what they determined was being said and when it was being said in relation to the timeline of the anomalous event.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:54
  #775 (permalink)  
 
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but a slow decompression doesn't fit so well with an 8 minutes lack of communication ..if there is a slow decompression I suppose the pilots get the warnings first ( cab altitude alerts)..have time to put the masks, start a descent and then finally communicate....
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:55
  #776 (permalink)  
 
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The cabin manager can definitely enter the flightdeck post depressurisation.
Yeah, we know. But it is no longer 'normal' it is 'emergency' and it makes a hellava noise. And most crew are trained to sit down, where their view of the outside is non-existent.

In days of yore they could slip in, see that 'things were being done', and slip out - with saying a word or disturbing anyone. You remember that 'cabin secure flip-flap', that used to magically change to 'secure' all by itself? They cannea do that now, captn.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:59
  #777 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by butterfly68 View Post
On the Italian press and on other several international newspapers it is said that after the first impression they got from listening the CVR ( there are voices and among them the last contact with the ATC ....) the explosive decompression is ruled out...
Could you point me to a source of that? Also specifically ruling out explosive decompression? Is it something written or just a Journo talking on TV?
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:59
  #778 (permalink)  
 
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My question is, would visual recordings of the cockpit and the cabin help with investigations?
Not gonna happen as long as the cabin crew and flight deck officers are represented by labor unions.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 22:09
  #779 (permalink)  
 
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Sky News reporting that decompression has been ruled out. Not that I trust Sky but they have reported this in news at 10. No qualification i.e. explosive or slow decompression. Suggestig it has been ruled it out as a whole.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 22:14
  #780 (permalink)  
 
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I would have thought that they can determine through a post-mortem how death occured. Ie Was it Hypoxia ?, or were oxygen levels in the blood low indicating a reduction in breathable oxygen levels.
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