Virgin landing gear incident LGW!
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Regarding the Northern/Emergency Runway/08L/26R or whatever you wish to call it.
I don't know the reason for not using it in this instance but it can be used with an aircraft on the main runway and has been in the past.
I recall using the Northern(08L) several years ago whilst taxiing departures up to 737 size down Juliet and anything bigger, including Heavies, down the main after crossing the Northern at Romeo and using Delta to access the main.
Was a very interesting afternoon!
Because its only designed to be used when the main runway is temporarily out of use being inspected or resurfaced or repaired or otherwise maintained (eg new landing light system installation) but is far too close to the main runway to ever be safely operated when an aircraft (especially a 747) is standing on that other main runway.
I recall using the Northern(08L) several years ago whilst taxiing departures up to 737 size down Juliet and anything bigger, including Heavies, down the main after crossing the Northern at Romeo and using Delta to access the main.
Was a very interesting afternoon!
I have flown wide bodies not so long ago.. And saw first hand the landing yesterday….
Caused me a big delay but, who cares, all pax safe, what better result could we have?
Anyone complaining about this situation wasn't in a crew seat, or dare I say a passenger.
Bloody good job to the skipper, FO and AND cabin crew who were ready for the worst case senerio..
Well done all of you….
And well done to ATC and the under praised AFS who are there all day everyday for when we hope it doesn't go wrong… When it does, there are.
Thank you...
Caused me a big delay but, who cares, all pax safe, what better result could we have?
Anyone complaining about this situation wasn't in a crew seat, or dare I say a passenger.
Bloody good job to the skipper, FO and AND cabin crew who were ready for the worst case senerio..
Well done all of you….
And well done to ATC and the under praised AFS who are there all day everyday for when we hope it doesn't go wrong… When it does, there are.
Thank you...
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No cable run for the alternate extend system on a jumbo each uplock has an elec motor. Ops check is a scheduled maintenance task. Not that it was an issue here.
My manuals say:
"The wing gear alternate extension system consists of an electic actuator which powers a cam and cable system.
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Bent wheel cover maybe?
Undamaged port side
Damaged Starboard side?
Could this be the cause of the problem?
Damaged Starboard side?
Could this be the cause of the problem?
Last edited by stevebbh; 30th Dec 2014 at 23:11. Reason: additional photo
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Bent wheel cover maybe?
Or if the wing gear door was damaged prior to gear extension (as seen in this pic) then that would have stopped the wing gear from extending (although unlikely).
Yes, that gear door looks stuffed alright and appears to have contacted the wheel. Or the wheel has hit it on extension for whatever reason.
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Yes, that gear door looks stuffed alright and appears to have contacted the wheel. Or the wheel has hit it on extension for whatever reason.
During normal extension attempts, might partial hydraulic pressurisation of the right wing gear components cause the gear to extend out of sequence, after which, not even an Alternate Extension might recover the situation? I don't know how the sequencing valve behaves under these conditions. I dare say only Boeing would know the answer to this one.
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Alternate system works as follows talking about a single wing gear. Quick n nasty version.
Electric motor runs, rotary cam drives cables to unlock the hydraulic lock holding the gear doors closed. (Exactly the same way the doors are opened by maintenance on the ground using the manual gear door handle).
Doors unlock electric motor stops!
Doors fall open, when sufficiently open (proximity switch) motor runs again drives gear lock/unlock hook to release the gear.
Gear falls may or may not hit the skid plate (will on the ground during maintenance as the doors aren't faced with a 150kt airflow) airflow is unpredictable.
System runs full circle and resets itself. (Involves time limits etc complicated)
A failure of a restrictor check valve that slows the initial gear extension or a miss rigged proximity switch may have caused the gear to drop early or fast and hit the door before it was able to get the skid to do its job (the skid actually also forces the doors fully open).
Trying the gear lever could also have stuffed it up as the system would possibly be out of sequence ie the doors cracked open and then an alternate extension was attempted which may have led to the restrictor check valve opening early and the gear dropping fast enough to cause damage and get hooked up.
Looks like the gear door was peeled open from the impact.
Hopefully we'll find out and all learn a bit more about aviation.
Electric motor runs, rotary cam drives cables to unlock the hydraulic lock holding the gear doors closed. (Exactly the same way the doors are opened by maintenance on the ground using the manual gear door handle).
Doors unlock electric motor stops!
Doors fall open, when sufficiently open (proximity switch) motor runs again drives gear lock/unlock hook to release the gear.
Gear falls may or may not hit the skid plate (will on the ground during maintenance as the doors aren't faced with a 150kt airflow) airflow is unpredictable.
System runs full circle and resets itself. (Involves time limits etc complicated)
A failure of a restrictor check valve that slows the initial gear extension or a miss rigged proximity switch may have caused the gear to drop early or fast and hit the door before it was able to get the skid to do its job (the skid actually also forces the doors fully open).
Trying the gear lever could also have stuffed it up as the system would possibly be out of sequence ie the doors cracked open and then an alternate extension was attempted which may have led to the restrictor check valve opening early and the gear dropping fast enough to cause damage and get hooked up.
Looks like the gear door was peeled open from the impact.
Hopefully we'll find out and all learn a bit more about aviation.
Quite right NSEU I forgot the door sequencing mechanism there, was just thinking of the gear itself, Altn actuator bolted onto each uplock mechanism with a big 
hook and spring that takes some effort to get over centre.
hook and spring that takes some effort to get over centre.
but planting (and bouncing!) it down like this is not much safer either.
Can't start braking until 'planted'. Within reason, get it down and get it stopped.
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Maybe those in charge of the journos have been reading this thread.
BBC News - Pilot who landed gear problem jet 'just doing job'
BBC News - Pilot who landed gear problem jet 'just doing job'
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As an occasional PPRuNe browser unconnected with the industry but generally curious, this event has raised a question which has often occurred to me before. Once the crew became aware of the problem, they were unable to establish the actual condition of the gear simply because they couldn't see it, and had to get confirmation of the true status from people on the ground. I've seen this a number of times, for example I remember when the Qantas A380 engine explosion occurred, crew were reported to be going around the aircraft looking out of the windows trying to see what sort of state the engine was in.
My question is this; given the small size and weight and low cost of modern CCTV equipment, why aren't modern aircraft fitted with cameras showing views of critical equipment? Not only would this give the crew information about the current status, it would also allow them to play back coverage of whatever event occurred whilst trying to work out the best course of action. Footage would also be useful for diagnosing the cause of the problem either by repair crews or, God forbid, by accident investigators.
My question is this; given the small size and weight and low cost of modern CCTV equipment, why aren't modern aircraft fitted with cameras showing views of critical equipment? Not only would this give the crew information about the current status, it would also allow them to play back coverage of whatever event occurred whilst trying to work out the best course of action. Footage would also be useful for diagnosing the cause of the problem either by repair crews or, God forbid, by accident investigators.
Last edited by Shanewhite; 31st Dec 2014 at 08:20. Reason: spollung mistook
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Virgin landing gear incident LGW!
Common name and probably not but now the captain has spoken I'm wondering if it's the same DW that flew the -400F/-8F for GSS until it's demise?
Disregard, just seen picture. It's not.
Disregard, just seen picture. It's not.
Last edited by Flightmech; 31st Dec 2014 at 08:38.
Quote:
but planting (and bouncing!) it down like this is not much safer either.
Do we know definitively about possible reduced deceleration capability ?
Can't start braking until 'planted'. Within reason, get it down and get it stopped.
but planting (and bouncing!) it down like this is not much safer either.
Do we know definitively about possible reduced deceleration capability ?
Can't start braking until 'planted'. Within reason, get it down and get it stopped.
Bottums Up
In deference to the anti-bounce gurus, I fall on my sword.
I too have made a few bounced landings over the years. Sadly I can't blame degraded flight controls.
I too have made a few bounced landings over the years. Sadly I can't blame degraded flight controls.
The touchdown
BBC News - Pilot who landed gear problem jet 'just doing job'
The B744 does have more of a ground effect than the Classic.
I don't think his little skip was a problem at all.
Nick Hughes, another passenger, said: "All credit due to the crew and the staff and of course the pilots because the landing was probably one of the softest landings I've ever had."
I don't think his little skip was a problem at all.
I didn't think the contrast was too great in the BBC video, but I did see what could have been a brief burst of sparks at the first touchdown. The still pictures looked like fairly long exposures based on the streaked background, so it's probably just that the sparks showed up a lot better.
Whether using a picture of sparks that were present for perhaps a second (and may well have appear much more dramatic in the photo than they did in person) is a fair way to represent the landing is a different question. But the media loves sparks -- just ask anyone who's been photographed doing metal work.
Whether using a picture of sparks that were present for perhaps a second (and may well have appear much more dramatic in the photo than they did in person) is a fair way to represent the landing is a different question. But the media loves sparks -- just ask anyone who's been photographed doing metal work.
Last edited by Chu Chu; 31st Dec 2014 at 13:47.
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Bent wheel cover
Looking at that gear retraction / lowering video, if that little green clip had failed the flap would not be pinned back and the gear would have fouled and bent the door when it was lowered. The problem would not be discovered in use until it was retracted again after take off.
The question I have is: should there be a visual inspection done of the aircraft before takeoff? Do the flight or ground crew have to look for such damage? Being as it is under the wing but still plenty of headroom it would have been visible for anybody looking for it.
The question I have is: should there be a visual inspection done of the aircraft before takeoff? Do the flight or ground crew have to look for such damage? Being as it is under the wing but still plenty of headroom it would have been visible for anybody looking for it.