Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore
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Umm, they actually have engineers from Airbus advising.
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Am I the only one who finds this to be highly irregular? Until the exact cause of this accident is known, is it proper to have engineers from the manufacturer, an obvious interested party in the outcome, advising on the (mis)handling of the evidence?
Airbus (and Boeing) would rather find something wrong and definitely fix it, than having rumours that they covered up a flaw and that their planes are suspected to be unsafe. If the public cannot have confidence in the manufacturer, that's the quickest way for them to lose customers. Besides, even if Airbus were to be found to be at fault, they have insurance to cover any liabilities.
A safety investigation is very different than criminal proceedings in many countries. In Indonesia (similar to the US), any wreckage / evidence sensitive to investigations will be under control of the country's transportation safety board -- unless and until a criminal element is found.
In other countries (such as Italy, Japan), accidents are treated as criminal cases first, and will be under the jurisdiction of police with very strict custody handling / chain of evidence procedures, until criminal action can be definitively ruled out.
In some cases, this "interference" from police and the adversarial nature of criminal investigations have delayed and compromised safety investigations.
On the CVR "debate": The flight deck is a closed office. In normal circumstances what is said there should stay there. There is no way a senior executive would be willing to endure the same level of potential scrutiny, so why should I?
I don't particularly care what other people are forced to endure in their workplaces. Many wrongs do not make a right.
The idea of encryption with a key held by a third party appeals to me very much.
I don't particularly care what other people are forced to endure in their workplaces. Many wrongs do not make a right.
The idea of encryption with a key held by a third party appeals to me very much.
Last edited by Australopithecus; 12th Jan 2015 at 01:17. Reason: Removed reference to Airbus advising due already covered.
Live CVR transmission
Encryption will never work as designed in all jurisdictions. Some CAA/airlines will not subscribe unless they can hold the keys. Just like some don't allow CVR erase buttons, as were prescribed in the original international agreements.
Either that or hackers will be employed to decrypt for surreptitious spying!
If implemented, I can see the newspaper transcriptions of CVR broadcasts.
Some form of DFDR upload may have some short term benefit. But will it outweigh the cost? The accident report will still take just as long to compile. All will happen is that a lot of this bad taste 'armchair investigation' will be avoided.
There is only one event in history where the black boxes haven't been found, so what is the real 'cost' advantage?
Either that or hackers will be employed to decrypt for surreptitious spying!
If implemented, I can see the newspaper transcriptions of CVR broadcasts.
Some form of DFDR upload may have some short term benefit. But will it outweigh the cost? The accident report will still take just as long to compile. All will happen is that a lot of this bad taste 'armchair investigation' will be avoided.
There is only one event in history where the black boxes haven't been found, so what is the real 'cost' advantage?
In a free society, all information of public interest must be free
In this day and age, it is important that as many sources as possible can have a crack at interpreting data that is of public interest. Accidents where people are hurt or die and financial interests are at stake (i.e. all accidents) by that very definition thus are of public interest.
This is not about armchair investigators or morbid sensationalism of the public. But even when there are a few of those, what do you care? What's important is that there are checks and balances *especially* when accidents occur in parts of the world where the facts are often obscured by convenience. Just look at them heave the tail section on board of that salvage vessel. What about the lack of post mortems on the bodies found? This is an absolute disgrace and a joke of an investigation thus far.
The flight deck during critical flight phases is NOT a closed office as much as anyone cannot send whatever they please via their employers email system. It will be read and you will be fired if you engage in inappropriate conduct. And there's nothing wrong with that.
I am of course assuming that there are no airlines left unfamiliar with the concept of a sterile cockpit, and that anything private said outside the sterile phase is not made public.
A big ask, perhaps. But certainly in line with long established office rules in the majority of the world.
This is not about armchair investigators or morbid sensationalism of the public. But even when there are a few of those, what do you care? What's important is that there are checks and balances *especially* when accidents occur in parts of the world where the facts are often obscured by convenience. Just look at them heave the tail section on board of that salvage vessel. What about the lack of post mortems on the bodies found? This is an absolute disgrace and a joke of an investigation thus far.
The flight deck during critical flight phases is NOT a closed office as much as anyone cannot send whatever they please via their employers email system. It will be read and you will be fired if you engage in inappropriate conduct. And there's nothing wrong with that.
I am of course assuming that there are no airlines left unfamiliar with the concept of a sterile cockpit, and that anything private said outside the sterile phase is not made public.
A big ask, perhaps. But certainly in line with long established office rules in the majority of the world.
Flight data recorder recovered
JAKARTA - Indonesia’s search and rescue agency said on Monday morning that search teams had managed to retrieve the flight data recorder of the Indonesia AirAsia plane that crashed in the Java Sea.
“I received information from the National Transport Safety Committee (KNKT) chief that at 07.11 am, we succeeded in bringing up part of the black box that we call the flight data recorder,” Basarnas chief Bambang Soelistyo told reporters.
The cockpit voice recorder has yet to be recovered, he added.
"We confirmed this as the object has a tag number and serial – PN-2100-4043-02 and serial number SN-000556583,’’ he told reporters. "Now we are trying to locate cockpit voice recorder."
Flight QZ8501 vanished from radar screens over the northern Java Sea on Dec 28, less than half-way into a two-hour flight from Indonesia’s second-biggest city of Surabaya to Singapore.
“I received information from the National Transport Safety Committee (KNKT) chief that at 07.11 am, we succeeded in bringing up part of the black box that we call the flight data recorder,” Basarnas chief Bambang Soelistyo told reporters.
The cockpit voice recorder has yet to be recovered, he added.
"We confirmed this as the object has a tag number and serial – PN-2100-4043-02 and serial number SN-000556583,’’ he told reporters. "Now we are trying to locate cockpit voice recorder."
Flight QZ8501 vanished from radar screens over the northern Java Sea on Dec 28, less than half-way into a two-hour flight from Indonesia’s second-biggest city of Surabaya to Singapore.
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MetroTV in Indonesia reported that it is the FDR that has been found wedged amongst the wreckage of the fuselage. The CVR has not yet been located.
Update: The FDR has now been retreived from the ocean and will be sent to Jakarta for analysis.
Update: The FDR has now been retreived from the ocean and will be sent to Jakarta for analysis.
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FDR recovered, not yet CVR
From AirAsia flight: Divers recover flight data recorder | SBS News
A team of Indonesian navy divers retrieved on Monday the flight data recorder from an AirAsia airliner that crashed two weeks ago, killing all 162 people on board, a government official said.
"This morning I had an official report from the national transportation safety committee. At 7:11 we had succeeded in lifting the part of the black box known as the flight data recorder," Fransiskus Bambang Soelistyo, head of the search and rescue agency, told a news conference.
"We are still trying to find the cockpit voice recorder."
Flight QZ8501 vanished from radar screens over the northern Java Sea on Dec. 28, less than half-way into a two-hour flight from Indonesia's second-biggest city of Surabaya to Singapore.
A team of Indonesian navy divers retrieved on Monday the flight data recorder from an AirAsia airliner that crashed two weeks ago, killing all 162 people on board, a government official said.
"This morning I had an official report from the national transportation safety committee. At 7:11 we had succeeded in lifting the part of the black box known as the flight data recorder," Fransiskus Bambang Soelistyo, head of the search and rescue agency, told a news conference.
"We are still trying to find the cockpit voice recorder."
Flight QZ8501 vanished from radar screens over the northern Java Sea on Dec. 28, less than half-way into a two-hour flight from Indonesia's second-biggest city of Surabaya to Singapore.
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Reports that divers have located CVR
RT Breaking News: Reports that divers have located CVR
http://rt.com/news/221635-airasia-black-box-lifted/
http://rt.com/news/221635-airasia-black-box-lifted/
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Reports coming through now that the CVR has also been located 20 meters from the FDR.
https://twitter.com/ChannelNewsAsia/...364481/photo/1
https://twitter.com/ChannelNewsAsia/...364481/photo/1
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Coordinates of FDRs are:-
3°37'20.7"S 109°42'43"E
3°37'21.13"S 109°42'42.45"E
Which is DFDR I am not sure, but they are 21.7 meters apart.
3°37'20.7"S 109°42'43"E
3°37'21.13"S 109°42'42.45"E
Which is DFDR I am not sure, but they are 21.7 meters apart.
Last edited by mm43; 12th Jan 2015 at 05:49.
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Speaking in Jakarta, Bambang Soelistyo told reporters: "I received information from the National Transport Safety Committee chief that at 07:11 (00:11 GMT), we succeeded in bringing up part of the black box that we call the flight data recorder." He said the flight data recorder was found under the wreckage of a wing.
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There are statements being made publicly even ahead of data readout from the FDR at:
Indonesia retrieves crashed AirAsia jet's flight data recorder - Channel NewsAsia
S B Supriyadi, a director with the national search and rescue agency, said initial analysis of the wreckage so far recovered indicated that the plane broke apart on impact with the water.
"It exploded because of the pressure," he told reporters in the town of Pangkalan Bun on Borneo island, the search headquarters. "The cabin was pressurised and before the pressure of the cabin could be adjusted, it went down - boom. That explosion was heard in the area."
Indonesia retrieves crashed AirAsia jet's flight data recorder - Channel NewsAsia
S B Supriyadi, a director with the national search and rescue agency, said initial analysis of the wreckage so far recovered indicated that the plane broke apart on impact with the water.
"It exploded because of the pressure," he told reporters in the town of Pangkalan Bun on Borneo island, the search headquarters. "The cabin was pressurised and before the pressure of the cabin could be adjusted, it went down - boom. That explosion was heard in the area."