Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore
Regarding location of the data recorders, from all the conjecture that's gone before it seems entirely consistent that they would have been detatched on impact along with the apu and the bottom hull aft of the pressure bulkhead, sinking rapidly to the bottom while the relatively buoyant fin was carried downstream before sinking itself.
In all this, the real heroes are the divers. "Only 6 knot current".
In all this, the real heroes are the divers. "Only 6 knot current".
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Could someone please enlighten me as to why Boeing and NTSB are more trustworthy than Airbus and BEA?
I really don't get this whole A vs B thing some of you have got going. And why shouldn't BEA be trusted but ATSB should? I just don't get it. To me all planes are created equally beautiful but with different strengths to suit different persons and needs.
Also, some statement about autopsies and stuff.... of course there are going to be autopsies but you don't have to examine every single person in depth because some time cause of death is obvious to the naked eye and you can extrapolate from that.
I really don't get this whole A vs B thing some of you have got going. And why shouldn't BEA be trusted but ATSB should? I just don't get it. To me all planes are created equally beautiful but with different strengths to suit different persons and needs.
Also, some statement about autopsies and stuff.... of course there are going to be autopsies but you don't have to examine every single person in depth because some time cause of death is obvious to the naked eye and you can extrapolate from that.
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Originally Posted by broadreach
In all this, the real heroes are the divers. "Only 6 knot current".
You can't swim against this. These divers are risking their lives with very narrow windows to do it in (when it calms down). I hope the media pressure doesn't make them do something stupid.
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Mr Snuggles
Mr snuggles you're so right and it's so tiresome, especially the irrationality displayed by a lot of pilots who otherwise like to boast of their superior reasoning. It only convinces me that maybe some of these guys weren't so superior as they think, if despite all statistics they genuinely think Airbuses are inherently dangerous.
Boeing are very involved in the search for MH370 and the investigation into Asiana 214, but no-one has ever suggested any conflict of interest there. It's just how it goes sadly. Ironic, given the number of pilots who pride themselves on their rationality and like to remind us how flying is the safest form of transport, but then are as irrational as the most feared flyer when they're comparing products....
I will keep flying Airbuses as they have exactly the same chance of crashing, but generally a more comfortable economy product.
(the good thing is any time someone tells me I shouldn't be nervous about flying in turbulence because it's irrational, I can just point to all the Boeing guys who appear to be terrified of flying on Airbus equipment and are doing their best to put anyone who listens off flying. Good job guys.)
Boeing are very involved in the search for MH370 and the investigation into Asiana 214, but no-one has ever suggested any conflict of interest there. It's just how it goes sadly. Ironic, given the number of pilots who pride themselves on their rationality and like to remind us how flying is the safest form of transport, but then are as irrational as the most feared flyer when they're comparing products....
I will keep flying Airbuses as they have exactly the same chance of crashing, but generally a more comfortable economy product.
(the good thing is any time someone tells me I shouldn't be nervous about flying in turbulence because it's irrational, I can just point to all the Boeing guys who appear to be terrified of flying on Airbus equipment and are doing their best to put anyone who listens off flying. Good job guys.)
Last edited by neila83; 13th Jan 2015 at 00:02.
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Radar characteristics
"The signal needs to be of just the right strength to be partially reflected thus showing the WX. The snag is the weaker beam also suffers attenuation."
This is not true. All radar beams suffer attenuation. A stronger beam can make it through the precip when weaker beams may not. The radar processes the echo after the beam has been transmitted, so a stronger beam will always produce a stronger echo. Radars also attempt to compensate for the attenuation (your mileage may vary).
A mention has been made here of radar and super-cells. Super-cells are rotating thunderstorms that are unlikely at ITCZ latitudes - they are what produce most tornadoes, especially in the US midwest. Super-cells may have a bounded weak echo region (a rapid updraft with a weak radar echo). I don't think that's what's going on here.
But... an ordinary very strong thunderstorm cell can also produce weak echos in the updraft. Monsoon storms are likely to be pulse-severe - they pop up, rain in their own inflow, and die, followed by another one triggered by the outflow from that rain. To a normal observer, it looks like one storm moving along, but the reality is more complex. On a satellite picture, the only clue may be a series of overshooting tops (colder spots) in a general area of cold tops.
This is not true. All radar beams suffer attenuation. A stronger beam can make it through the precip when weaker beams may not. The radar processes the echo after the beam has been transmitted, so a stronger beam will always produce a stronger echo. Radars also attempt to compensate for the attenuation (your mileage may vary).
A mention has been made here of radar and super-cells. Super-cells are rotating thunderstorms that are unlikely at ITCZ latitudes - they are what produce most tornadoes, especially in the US midwest. Super-cells may have a bounded weak echo region (a rapid updraft with a weak radar echo). I don't think that's what's going on here.
But... an ordinary very strong thunderstorm cell can also produce weak echos in the updraft. Monsoon storms are likely to be pulse-severe - they pop up, rain in their own inflow, and die, followed by another one triggered by the outflow from that rain. To a normal observer, it looks like one storm moving along, but the reality is more complex. On a satellite picture, the only clue may be a series of overshooting tops (colder spots) in a general area of cold tops.
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Which floating black box will presumably be fitted with an ELT. Hooray !
Please note that the article says this will be a second black box copy of the version secured to the airframe.
Please note that the article says this will be a second black box copy of the version secured to the airframe.
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Airbus planes will soon carry ejectable, floating black boxes to aid in their location.
I have to wonder if the spokesman understands the reality of rolling out such an option. I know the major manufacturers could design such a system (in a sense it is existing tech). Getting it approved would take a while, but getting every aircraft retrofitted would be a marathon. Such changes are not "generally quick".
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The problem is when the ULBs do not transmit as was the case initially with these blackboxes. And the ULBs have a limited range?
A better option would be to transmit the FDR data using telemetry to a ground based station via satellite. Transmission could be triggered by a master caution going off by the aircraft's warning system.
A better option would be to transmit the FDR data using telemetry to a ground based station via satellite. Transmission could be triggered by a master caution going off by the aircraft's warning system.
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The industry will get the system that the sharp avionics salesman/salesmen get sold to the chairman of the board of the airline and its beancounters. In almost all cases this will be the wrong system for the job but the salesman will make a lot of commission.
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Airbus and the BEA are both heavily represented. Photos of their people near the wreckage are evident in the press. Let's hope someone will be looking very closely over their shoulders to make sure the full and complete data from both from the FDR the CVR (when it is recovered) is made known and public. Whatever the data/conversations tell us about pitot tubes, FBW, direct vs alternate laws, crew training, P2F, decision making, cockpit resource management, etc, etc.
CVR transcripts fall under stricter guidelines due to privacy concerns - this information can be published if the investigating state's laws and customs permit it.
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Good luck getting the black boxes to float!
Armour plated for crash resistance, for their size, they would have to be the heaviest boxes on the aircraft. You'd have to find a crash resistant/fire proof floatation device of considerable size.
Armour plated for crash resistance, for their size, they would have to be the heaviest boxes on the aircraft. You'd have to find a crash resistant/fire proof floatation device of considerable size.
According to the RT clip posted earlier, the rescue crew on the barge are all Russian.
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Budi Sampurna, a professor at the University of Indonesia and member of the forensic team responsible for identifying bodies from the crash, said one autopsy had already taken place, but he didn’t comment on the cause of death. He also didn’t say how many other autopsies were planned.
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CVR RECOVERED
By Nilufar Rizki
JAKARTA (Reuters) - Divers retrieved the cockpit voice recorder from the wreck of an AirAsia passenger jet on Tuesday, MetroTV said quoting a transport official, a key piece of evidence for investigators to determine the cause of the crash that killed 162 people.
The cockpit voice recorder, which records conversations between the pilots and with air traffic controllers, was found close to where the flight data recorder was recovered from the bottom of the Java Sea on Monday, the report said.
JAKARTA (Reuters) - Divers retrieved the cockpit voice recorder from the wreck of an AirAsia passenger jet on Tuesday, MetroTV said quoting a transport official, a key piece of evidence for investigators to determine the cause of the crash that killed 162 people.
The cockpit voice recorder, which records conversations between the pilots and with air traffic controllers, was found close to where the flight data recorder was recovered from the bottom of the Java Sea on Monday, the report said.
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CVR retreived
AirAsia: Second black box retrieved – report
AirAsia: Second black box retrieved ? report | World | 3 News
AirAsia: Second black box retrieved ? report | World | 3 News
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No doubt the Indonesian search and rescue organisation will parade it around for the cameras like they did for the FDR. They're loving the attention, but kudos to them and all involved in the SAR effort. They deserve all the accolades they get.
They're loving the attention, but kudos to them and all involved in the SAR effort. They deserve all the accolades they get.