Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore
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Glendalegoon, the best approach is a two-pronged attack. Yes, try to ensure the situation can't happen in the first place - but also try to ensure the wreckage can be found promptly, and with adequate surviving flight records to enable accurate findings, as to the cause of the crash.
We are faced with ever-bigger mysteries in many recent air crashes, and it's obvious the FDR and pinger areas need to be uprated and improved.
It doesn't take billions, it doesn't need entirely new "back-to-basics" gadgets - all it takes is some clever thinking to modify current systems.
I've no doubt the naysayers were out in their tens of thousands as well, when FDR's were first proposed.
"They'll never be able to get them to survive a crash! They'll cost more than the aircraft! They won't provide any worthwhile information! They'll never be able to find them!"
The same thing applied to airbags in motor vehicles when they were first mooted. They were laughed off scornfully as "fantasyland stuff" - yet some dedicated designers persisted, and I'll wager you now purchase your new vehicle based on its crash safety ratings, and the amount of airbag protection it features.
We are faced with ever-bigger mysteries in many recent air crashes, and it's obvious the FDR and pinger areas need to be uprated and improved.
It doesn't take billions, it doesn't need entirely new "back-to-basics" gadgets - all it takes is some clever thinking to modify current systems.
I've no doubt the naysayers were out in their tens of thousands as well, when FDR's were first proposed.
"They'll never be able to get them to survive a crash! They'll cost more than the aircraft! They won't provide any worthwhile information! They'll never be able to find them!"
The same thing applied to airbags in motor vehicles when they were first mooted. They were laughed off scornfully as "fantasyland stuff" - yet some dedicated designers persisted, and I'll wager you now purchase your new vehicle based on its crash safety ratings, and the amount of airbag protection it features.
Originally Posted by Glendalgoon
Most planes are pretty good. Stuff happens. IF you want to prevent all accidents are you prepared to pay 4 times current ticket prices to get even half a percent safer travel?
Teddy is partially right: "1) handing the management of flight ops to the accounts department on a plate" but that is a natural consequence of regulators that are obviously happy to accept the status-quo.
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Another possible "detection" of black box
Very recent new tweet reporting on possible "detection" of black box.
From Jackson Board
"International Reporter & Producer @ChannelNewsAsia's digital newsroom."
"Jackson Board @JackBoard 16m16 minutes ago
Unconfirmed reports specialist search team BPPT has detected #QZ8501 black box at depth of 30 metres, could be lifted today"
https://twitter.com/JackBoard/status/554103967450275840
From Jackson Board
"International Reporter & Producer @ChannelNewsAsia's digital newsroom."
"Jackson Board @JackBoard 16m16 minutes ago
Unconfirmed reports specialist search team BPPT has detected #QZ8501 black box at depth of 30 metres, could be lifted today"
https://twitter.com/JackBoard/status/554103967450275840
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"THREE ships equipped with ping detector beacons received pings from the same location," said Ridwan Djamaluddin, from the Agency for the Application of Technology, whose ship was involved in the search on Sunday.
He said the ping came from a location about one to four kilometres from where the aircraft's broken tail section was retrieved on Saturday.
He said the ping came from a location about one to four kilometres from where the aircraft's broken tail section was retrieved on Saturday.
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RE: are you truly amazed?
Teddy Robinson, sounds like you've settled on pilot error, LOC, and poor training as the cause. (Not that I'd be surprised.) 
1) handing the management of flight ops to the accounts department on a plate
2) treating recruitment as a revenue source) see point 1)
3) denuding simulator sessions to the bare minimum required to stay legal, again see point 1
2) treating recruitment as a revenue source) see point 1)
3) denuding simulator sessions to the bare minimum required to stay legal, again see point 1
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New pic of tail
I found this picture of the recovered tail section, it shows the deformation from a different angle and the accordion like ripples in the skin.
http://media.themalaysianinsider.com...AFP-100115.jpg
http://media.themalaysianinsider.com...AFP-100115.jpg
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"THREE ships equipped with ping detector beacons received pings from the same location," said Ridwan Djamaluddin, from the Agency for the Application of Technology, whose ship was involved in the search on Sunday.
He said the ping came from a location about one to four kilometres from where the aircraft's broken tail section was retrieved on Saturday."
Hopefully it's the black boxes and not that one of the ships left their ping detector's test tone on!
He said the ping came from a location about one to four kilometres from where the aircraft's broken tail section was retrieved on Saturday."
Hopefully it's the black boxes and not that one of the ships left their ping detector's test tone on!
Last edited by Coagie; 11th Jan 2015 at 16:52. Reason: Highlight quote.
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Leightman 957,
See imagine at better resolution and personal presumed forces of impact with sea
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/27f...vb2la6auzg.jpg
See imagine at better resolution and personal presumed forces of impact with sea
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/27f...vb2la6auzg.jpg
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Originally Posted by JSmithDTV
They are completely sealed units designed for massive G load, water, fire etc.
The plugs and wiring at the back of the unit appear to be still exposed. Looking at the type of unit fitted to the A320, only the recorded data section is fire/G-/crashproof. The processing stuff and power supply are in the rectangular section at the rear of the unit (which would still go through extremes of heat and cold). If you see the plugs on engine electronic components in uncompressurised areas, you'll see that, eventually, the rubber plug-seals let fluids in.
It is normal for these to be located here in many Airbus and Boeing planes;
And the owners are..
Answering my own question, the majority ownership (51 per cent) is split Pin Harris (20 per cent), Sendjaja Widjaja (21 per cent - and former President Director of PT AWAIR International) and PT Fersindo Nusaperkasa (10 per cent)
Qatar pushes for live aircraft data streaming | Avionics content from ATWOnline
...and more to come most likely...
...and more to come most likely...
He said the ping came from a location about one to four kilometres from where the aircraft's broken tail section was retrieved on Saturday.
Do the divers have any directional hand held hydrophones they can use when they get nearby?
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For those asking about the ownership of Air Asia Indonesia it is 49% owned by AirAsia Berhad (which is the Malaysian AirAsia entity) and 51% owned by PT Fersindo Nusaperkasa (the Indonesian shareholders). Under Indonesia law, all carriers must be at least 51% owned by Indonesians. This 51% rule applies to other industry sectors as well such as mining.
The CEO of PT Fersindo Nusaperkasa is Dharmadi. He was previously the CEO of AirAsia Indonesia. I have not been able to find any information regarding the shareholders of PT Fersindo but note the following:
Source: Indonesia AirAsia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Source: AirAsia: No more IPOs for affiliates | theSundaily
The CEO of PT Fersindo Nusaperkasa is Dharmadi. He was previously the CEO of AirAsia Indonesia. I have not been able to find any information regarding the shareholders of PT Fersindo but note the following:
The airline was established as Awair (Air Wagon International) in 1999 by Abdurrahman Wahid, former chairman of the Nahdlatul Ulama Muslim organisation. He had a 40% stake in the airline which he relinquished after being elected president of Indonesia in October 1999.
Last month, a local business daily reported that AirAsia scrapped its IPO plans for its Indonesian affiliate due to poor financial results. Indonesia AirAsia reported a net loss of RM102.35 million last year, compared with a net profit of RM52.5 million the year before, despite higher revenue.
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Indonesian search teams believe a sonar scan has detected the fuselage of an AirAsia airliner that crashed two weeks ago with the loss of all 162 people on board and divers were on Sunday checking the find, a senior official said....
Supriyadi, operations coordinator for the National Search and Rescue Agency, said a sonar scan had revealed an object measuring 10 metres by four metres by 2.5 metres on the sea floor."They suspect it is the body of the plane. There is a big possibility that the black box is near the body of the plane," Supriyadi told Reuters in the town of Pangkalan Bun, the base for the search effort on Borneo.
"A team of divers has already been sent to prove this data. The diving operation has started," he said.
Supriyadi, operations coordinator for the National Search and Rescue Agency, said a sonar scan had revealed an object measuring 10 metres by four metres by 2.5 metres on the sea floor."They suspect it is the body of the plane. There is a big possibility that the black box is near the body of the plane," Supriyadi told Reuters in the town of Pangkalan Bun, the base for the search effort on Borneo.
"A team of divers has already been sent to prove this data. The diving operation has started," he said.
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Is may be reasonable at this point to assert that the aircraft entered the sea intact based on the following logic: the tail structure that was recovered, had it fallen from altitude, would have oriented itself with the relatively heavy vertical stabilizer on the bottom and the draggy fuselage wreckage on top. The vertical fin would have hit the water first and show damage at the top of the fin. It does not.
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Indonesian searchers believe crashed AirAsia's fuselage found
Searchers have also been hearing pings, believed to be from the aircraft's black box flight recorders, near where the tail of the Airbus A320-200 aircraft tail was raised on Saturday.
Supriyadi, operations coordinator for the National Search and Rescue Agency, said a sonar scan had revealed an object measuring 10 metres by four metres by 2.5 metres on the sea floor.
"They suspect it is the body of the plane. There is a big possibility that the black box is near the body of the plane," Supriyadi told Reuters in the town of Pangkalan Bun, the base for the search effort on Borneo.
"A team of divers has already been sent to prove this data. The diving operation has started," he said.
Supriyadi, operations coordinator for the National Search and Rescue Agency, said a sonar scan had revealed an object measuring 10 metres by four metres by 2.5 metres on the sea floor.
"They suspect it is the body of the plane. There is a big possibility that the black box is near the body of the plane," Supriyadi told Reuters in the town of Pangkalan Bun, the base for the search effort on Borneo.
"A team of divers has already been sent to prove this data. The diving operation has started," he said.
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Saving lives
Bear in mind these things do not directly save any lives, and assuming they find the Air Asia DFDR / CVR soon, just save some search effort.
A sanity check is to put oneself in the position that a loved one was on an unfortunate flight. Let's bring these people home and return them to their loved ones. Surely the time has come for commercial aviation to catch up with other aviators that already use the technology e.g. military and oil services a/c.
Props are for boats!
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Excitation,
The technology is all ready in use in the US NAVY. Getting civilian airliners the same technology has been periodically blocked in Congress since 1999.
The technology is all ready in use in the US NAVY. Getting civilian airliners the same technology has been periodically blocked in Congress since 1999.
I don't think that Qatar's idea of recording cockpit voices then saving in a company controlled data centre is really going to do much other than get more pilots fired. Not hard in today's world of big data to scan everything flight conversation.
It's the beginning of the end IMHO.
It's the beginning of the end IMHO.
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AirScotia
"Can anyone hazard a guess as to what would happen if a small explosive went off in the rear toilet?"
It happened twice to the same BAC 1-11 of Philippine Airlines. Both times it just carried on flying.
It happened twice to the same BAC 1-11 of Philippine Airlines. Both times it just carried on flying.