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Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore

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Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore

Old 13th Jan 2015, 01:16
  #1881 (permalink)  
 
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Which floating black box will presumably be fitted with an ELT. Hooray !

Please note that the article says this will be a second black box copy of the version secured to the airframe.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 01:19
  #1882 (permalink)  
 
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Airbus planes will soon carry ejectable, floating black boxes to aid in their location.
The article quotes an unnamed spokesman for the European Air Security Agency saying that "the change is generally quick".

I have to wonder if the spokesman understands the reality of rolling out such an option. I know the major manufacturers could design such a system (in a sense it is existing tech). Getting it approved would take a while, but getting every aircraft retrofitted would be a marathon. Such changes are not "generally quick".
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 01:21
  #1883 (permalink)  
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But wouldn't they also get carried away with the ocean currents if they floated?
Of course they would. And what's the problem? None
First they are found, and even if thousand miles away, they contain all data, even the position of crash.
 
Old 13th Jan 2015, 01:33
  #1884 (permalink)  
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The problem is when the ULBs do not transmit as was the case initially with these blackboxes. And the ULBs have a limited range?

A better option would be to transmit the FDR data using telemetry to a ground based station via satellite. Transmission could be triggered by a master caution going off by the aircraft's warning system.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 01:50
  #1885 (permalink)  
 
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The industry will get the system that the sharp avionics salesman/salesmen get sold to the chairman of the board of the airline and its beancounters. In almost all cases this will be the wrong system for the job but the salesman will make a lot of commission.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 02:01
  #1886 (permalink)  
 
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Cockpit voice recorder.

According to ABC TV news (Aus) 'Divers have recovered the cockpit voice recorder, Official.'
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 02:01
  #1887 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by formationdriver View Post
Airbus and the BEA are both heavily represented. Photos of their people near the wreckage are evident in the press. Let's hope someone will be looking very closely over their shoulders to make sure the full and complete data from both from the FDR the CVR (when it is recovered) is made known and public. Whatever the data/conversations tell us about pitot tubes, FBW, direct vs alternate laws, crew training, P2F, decision making, cockpit resource management, etc, etc.
FD,Per ICAO Annex 13, the release of information is under the jurisdiction of the airline's country of registry in this case. Secondary parties involved in the confidential sharing of information include the country of incidence and manufacture of the aircraft. Final report data must be shared among operators of type, the manufacturer and participating ICAO governing entities, however public release of this information is primarily up to the state of registry's local laws and customs.

CVR transcripts fall under stricter guidelines due to privacy concerns - this information can be published if the investigating state's laws and customs permit it.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 02:06
  #1888 (permalink)  
 
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Good luck getting the black boxes to float!

Armour plated for crash resistance, for their size, they would have to be the heaviest boxes on the aircraft. You'd have to find a crash resistant/fire proof floatation device of considerable size.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 02:10
  #1889 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs up

According to the RT clip posted earlier, the rescue crew on the barge are all Russian.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 02:10
  #1890 (permalink)  
 
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Budi Sampurna, a professor at the University of Indonesia and member of the forensic team responsible for identifying bodies from the crash, said one autopsy had already taken place, but he didnít comment on the cause of death. He also didnít say how many other autopsies were planned.
I posted this 3 January. So yes autopsies have been done. I just think they don't want to talk about it because of family sensitivities.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 02:13
  #1891 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs up CVR RECOVERED

By Nilufar Rizki


JAKARTA (Reuters) - Divers retrieved the cockpit voice recorder from the wreck of an AirAsia passenger jet on Tuesday, MetroTV said quoting a transport official, a key piece of evidence for investigators to determine the cause of the crash that killed 162 people.

The cockpit voice recorder, which records conversations between the pilots and with air traffic controllers, was found close to where the flight data recorder was recovered from the bottom of the Java Sea on Monday, the report said.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 02:18
  #1892 (permalink)  
 
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CVR retreived

AirAsia: Second black box retrieved Ė report

AirAsia: Second black box retrieved ? report | World | 3 News
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 03:22
  #1893 (permalink)  
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No doubt the Indonesian search and rescue organisation will parade it around for the cameras like they did for the FDR. They're loving the attention, but kudos to them and all involved in the SAR effort. They deserve all the accolades they get.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 03:37
  #1894 (permalink)  
 
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Numerous news reports about the recovery of QZ8501's flight data recorder say it might take up to a month to read the data. Can anyone tell me if this is true and why it takes so long, especially if the FDR is intact, as this one seems to be?
If the FDR is in great condition then the data readout will be quick (hours or days).

Even so, after the data has been downloaded, all the information collected must then be validated / checked for quality. E.g., suppose we read out a series of sidestick movements -- how do we know that those were the actual movements of the sidestick, and not representing a sensor malfunction, or perhaps a recording error from the FDR itself?

There are hundreds of parameters which much be checked for correctness. Normally this quality check can be completed quickly as well, but in cases of discrepancy it can take many months to fully validate the data.

Various regulations stipulate that each FDR/CVR must be checked and analyzed for data quality (including a full-flight parameter readout) at least once every 12 months. Unfortunately there have been recorder errors undetected until after an accident, making retrieval & analysis a very long and tedious process.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 03:43
  #1895 (permalink)  
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Numerous news reports about the recovery of QZ8501's flight data recorder say it might take up to a month to read the data. Can anyone tell me if this is true and why it takes so long, especially if the FDR is intact, as this one seems to be?
And how long will it be before the data gets leaked to social media? My guess is, give it a week and we'll be discussing about it here .
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 03:53
  #1896 (permalink)  
 
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Of course they would. And what's the problem? None
First they are found, and even if thousand miles away, they contain all data, even the position of crash.
The problem is more along the lines of accidental ejection, especially if such an accidental ejection could itself cause safety issues (damage to the aircraft, etc.)

Airbus vs. Boeing have been debating this for months. From an NTSB meeting last year:

Boeing, Airbus at odds over black boxes that eject
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 03:56
  #1897 (permalink)  
 
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And how long will it be before the data gets leaked to social media? My guess is, give it a week and we'll be discussing about it here .
Give it 2 weeks to be safe.
You should probably see selected FDR data first. The voice will probably be held back while they discuss what is proper to release.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 03:57
  #1898 (permalink)  
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Don't know whether this has been posted before, but it shows a detailed map of what's been found in this area.



Object 18 could be the engine. Object 9 could be the fuselage. "Jenazah" is deceased (body).

Source: Twitter
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 04:43
  #1899 (permalink)  
 
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Having looked at lots and lots of digital FDR data over the years (most for incidents, not accidents), it does take some time to make sense of the data. Data corruption is not uncommon, nor is valid but 'miscaled' data (e.g. off by a factor of 2 or 4, that sort of thing), and things like power transfers or momentary power interrupts can corrupt data for several seconds.

Actual CVR recordings are seldom (never?) released after a fatal accident - only a transcript will be released to the public, and that's not likely to be real soon. I listened to one CVR when I was actively involved in an investigation (there was a 'click' that they wanted my opinion of what the sound was). Let's just say that listening to doomed pilots last words is not pleasant.

There will undoubtedly be complaints that more information is not forthcoming over the next several weeks. That's by design - during an active investigation the participants are effectively under a gag order. Unauthorized release of information can be career limiting - all data release is to be from the investigating authority. Sure, there'll be some leaks, but much of it may well be wrong (or at least inaccurate), which is why all the information is supposed to be released through channels.


So cool it with all the conspiracy theories for a while. The information will be released in due time.
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Old 13th Jan 2015, 05:19
  #1900 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs up CVR RECORDINGS

So cool it with all the conspiracy theories for a while. The information will be released in due time
AMEN AMEN AMEN
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