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Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore

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Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore

Old 7th Jan 2015, 21:57
  #1481 (permalink)  
 
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If large parts of aircraft have indeed ended up on the sea floor upside down of course there would be stress kinks and possible fractures to the skin. The tail area especially. This does not in any way give indications what may have happened in the air, especially with these limited view, murky images.

From what I've seen pinger locators have only been deployed (towed out) once and it did pick up a signal but sea conditions have stopped further deployment. That was as of yesterday, they may have managed today. Besides the divers / rov operators if briefed on what they are looking for (you'd hope) will have a good idea if boxes are likely to be there or not.
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Old 7th Jan 2015, 22:02
  #1482 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Smott999 View Post
Having said same, I also wonder if the location of the tail is due to
A) separation in flight or
B) main wreckage "location" may not be quite right or
C) some combination of the two.....
They haven't found the "main wreckage" yet. Just bodies and debris downstream in the current. I bet the tail they just found is not far from the last known radar position and the "main wreckage" will also be close by.
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Old 7th Jan 2015, 22:12
  #1483 (permalink)  
 
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The tail location is about 30km from the main search area.
The main search area is about 60 miles from the last known position.
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Old 7th Jan 2015, 22:37
  #1484 (permalink)  
 
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Straits Time reports: Black Box maybe retrieved today

Indonesia hopes to retrieve the black box on Indonesia AirAsia Flight QZ8501 today, after a brief lull in the bad weather allowed divers to positively identify the tail of the Airbus A320-200 plane where the voice and flight data recorders are housed.

The breakthrough yesterday - on the 11th day of a massive multinational search and recovery effort in the Java Sea - came as the Indonesian authorities suspended more AirAsia flights to Singapore, cutting three of the 21 weekly services from Bandung. The Surabaya-Singapore route was suspended late last week.

"The tail is where the black box is located," Coordinating Minister for Maritime Affairs Indroyono Soesilo told reporters. "Hopefully, it won't be long before it can be discovered."

The recorders are crucial in providing clues to what could have caused the plane, flying from Surabaya to Singapore on Dec 28 with 162 people on board, to crash into the sea. The data will be analysed in Indonesia after the black box is found, Mr Soesilo said.

Earlier, AirAsia boss Tony Fernandes tweeted on hearing news of the find: "If (it is the) right part of tail section, then the black box should be there... We need to find all parts soon so we can find all our guests to ease the pain of our families. That still is our priority."

Indonesia AirAsia has come under some fire after it was found that Flight QZ8501 did not have permission from the Indonesian authorities to fly on Sundays, the day the crash happened. Mr Fernandes denies culpability, saying this was "purely an administrative error".

But this has sparked a probe on unscheduled, or "phantom", flight approvals. The Corruption Eradication Commission may be roped in to help in the investigation.

Indonesia's National Police's Criminal Investigation Agency has formed a team to investigate the possibility of criminal activity in connection with the crash, chief spokesman Inspector General Ronny F Sompie told the Antara news agency. It is waiting for a crash report from the National Transportation Safety Committee, he said.

Yesterday, the head of search agency Basarnas, Mr Bambang Soelistyo, said divers were able to take photos that confirmed it was the tail, on which part of the airline logo could be seen.

The tail is wedged upside down on the seabed 30m deep. But it took a spot of good luck to pull it off, Lieutenant Edy Tirtayasa, the commander of Indonesia's elite diving unit Kopaska, told The Straits Times.

Undersea currents were calm - meaning visibility was good - when the first team went down and spotted the tail. A second team was deployed to take the pictures. After that, undersea current speeds picked up again.

One more body was retrieved yesterday, bringing the total to 40. Eight more victims have been identified, including St Andrew's Junior College student Nico Giovanni.
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Old 7th Jan 2015, 22:54
  #1485 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Propduffer View Post
The tail location is about 30km from the main search area.
The main search area is about 60 miles from the last known position.
AirAsia jet tail found underwater, black box may be close by | Reuters

The tail of a crashed AirAsia jet has been found upturned on the sea bed about 30 km (20 miles) from the plane's last known location
so if the tail was found 30klms from the last known location, and the other debris found is 100 klms from the last known location, indications are that the aircraft broke up at high altitude.
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Old 7th Jan 2015, 23:01
  #1486 (permalink)  
 
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The other debris was small stuff which probably drifted with the ocean currents. So this doesn't indicate a breakup in the air.
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Old 7th Jan 2015, 23:01
  #1487 (permalink)  
 
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re 7th Jan 2015 14:54 pjm

PJM SAID ....o if the tail was found 30klms from the last known location, and the other debris found is 100 klms from the last known location, indications are that the aircraft broke up at high altitude.

Not so fast ... the tail section may have floated for several hours- and in a stormy sea and high currents could well have moved the 15 miles or so in a few hours/days before sinking.

Ditto for other debris
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Old 7th Jan 2015, 23:38
  #1488 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Propduffer View Post
The other debris was small stuff which probably drifted with the ocean currents.
Which direction were the ocean currents running?
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Old 7th Jan 2015, 23:51
  #1489 (permalink)  
 
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Which direction were the ocean currents running?
Mostly to the east. Here's a pix of their current thinking on where to conduct the search.

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Old 7th Jan 2015, 23:53
  #1490 (permalink)  
 
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Which direction were the ocean currents running?

In general ...

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Old 7th Jan 2015, 23:58
  #1491 (permalink)  
 
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The quoted distances from LKP don't give any detail of direction. '30km from LKP' and '100km from LKP' could mean 70km apart or 130km or somewhere in between.

The main fuselage has not been found at LKP either. It could be 100ft from the tail, for all we know.
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Old 7th Jan 2015, 23:59
  #1492 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GarageYears View Post
The sonar scan image 2 posts up, reports the width of the selected section as being 4.6m... this corresponds fairly closely to the A320 fuselage width of 3.95m.

The typical beam-to-length ratios for smaller boats are 2:1 (up to about 6m length) to 5:1 for larger racing sailboats over 10m.

It might fit for a boat, but the fuselage width is very close to being spot on.
this clearer picture convince even more iot is a boat, you can see the sharp line at the fron of the prow. a dark area of deck a raised bridge and the black hole of a funnel
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 00:08
  #1493 (permalink)  
 
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It was reported that the pings were detected, which lead the divers to the tail. Then the pings stopped. It suggests that the boxes may be somewhere nearby, possibly half-smothered by silt?
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 00:09
  #1494 (permalink)  
 
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POB?...

Many media outlets are reporting 162 POB..

However, Indonesian ATC recording released yesterday refers to 'one six one'...?
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 00:14
  #1495 (permalink)  
 
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Al Jazeera is using this photo to link to their tail found story. Any ideas?
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...w=1280&bih=685

And the linked story with one other underwater shot:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-p...921222442.html
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 00:57
  #1496 (permalink)  
 
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THS deflection

To debunk the earlier post regarding the automatics causing max trim the AF447 trim was caused by excessive and prolonged stick back pilot input for a few minutes. It was not HAL taking control. On the contrary the protections were degraded which allowed him to make more mistakes due to his lack of training and bad decisions.
To use a car analogy it is like turning the steering wheel to full lock and then blaming the power steering for making the car skid. Without the driver input the assist would not be in use at all.
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 01:19
  #1497 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by xcitation
To use a car analogy it is like turning the steering wheel to full lock and then blaming the power steering for making the car skid. Without the driver input the assist would not be in use at all.
Rubbish. When you let go of the steering wheel, the steering returns to centre/neutral. In an Airbus, the Stab Trim happily stays at the full back trim position. Just what I don't want! Nerds designing features into aeroplanes that shouldn't be there. If you're hand-flying, you should be trimming. Much less likely to manually trim full back into a stall...
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 01:32
  #1498 (permalink)  
 
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Datum POB

There was 1 infant on board. That explains the difference.

Another thing to keep in mind is that there was 1 technician on board (his role is not explained - in other cases he might have been included in the number of passengers, just like 'hitching' flight crew that are not relief crew). The usual reporting is a crew consisting of the pilots and cabin crew. In this case 2 plus 4. Making up a total crew of not 6 but 7.
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 01:40
  #1499 (permalink)  
 
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Al Jazeera is using this photo to link to their tail found story. Any ideas?
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...w=1280&bih=685
From that image, it appears the fuselage separated from the tail near the aft cabin door...
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 01:40
  #1500 (permalink)  
 
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Capt Bloggs is right, although in an Airbus "hand flying" is more akin to "control wheel steering" in most Boeings. ie, its not really manual flying, and there is no realistic control force feedback.

I am an Airbus admirer, but training departments are too influenced by Airbus marketing when it comes to the infallibility of the protections.
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