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Dublin: 2 x RYR in contact during taxi. Both damaged.

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Dublin: 2 x RYR in contact during taxi. Both damaged.

Old 8th Apr 2015, 18:21
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Epsom
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AAIB report, BA/EI collision at LHR

Not related to this thread but interesting points raised re clearances.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...pdf_032603.pdf
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Old 8th Apr 2015, 22:13
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe ATC cannot 'wet nurse' each aircraft 100% of the time, but an instruction such as 'Maintain your own 100m clearance from other aircraft' could get the spacing correct.
Whilst flying my Cessna, I avoid Hovering Helicopters like the plague, and keep at least 100m away, much the same as behind the CAT aircraft jet-blasts.
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Old 8th Apr 2015, 22:43
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Maintaining 100M clearance at LHR is just not going to be practical, especially when you have 15 aircraft queuing for the holding point! Also radar is just not accurate enough!
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Old 9th Apr 2015, 11:16
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Exactly. Tower can literally be a mile away at times, even using the binoculars they haven't got a hope of seeing if 2 aircraft passing at awkward angles have sufficient clearance. Only those on the aircraft are close enough. Sensors in the stop bars detecting if someone's A**e is hanging out might help some of the problem, but with all the mixture of aircraft types and wingspans etc, it wouldn't make an enormous difference
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Old 9th Apr 2015, 11:56
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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IMHO it is not up to ATC to instruct you to keep 10m/20m/100m from another a/c on the ground. It's your responsibility not to crunch another one. Coming onto stand, even self manoeuvring ones, the wing tip clearances are <10m. You follow the yellow line and use Mk.1 eyeball to ensure safe clearance: not just blindly follow yellow line. You assess what's in front of you and within the area you are going to place your a/c and act accordingly. Consider how close the wing tip gets to 'turn out stands' and the neighbouring a/c. Hopefully there is a wing marshaller, but not always. You manoeuvre starts with faith, then correct technique, then care. No ATC.
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Old 9th Apr 2015, 12:17
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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April AAIB Bulletin RYR v RYR @ STN

The sole underlying cause appeared to be ATC unfortunately - the turn / stand geometry / angles and low 737 fuselage all meant that neither Flt Crew on taxiing aircraft or push crew on other could have reliably prevented it?
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Old 9th Apr 2015, 13:25
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Exactly. Tower can literally be a mile away at times, even using the binoculars they haven't got a hope of seeing if 2 aircraft passing at awkward angles have sufficient clearance. Only those on the aircraft are close enough. Sensors in the stop bars detecting if someone's A**e is hanging out might help some of the problem, but with all the mixture of aircraft types and wingspans etc, it wouldn't make an enormous difference
Just thinking out loud here.
I was considering the good, 'ole xpdr and thinking that maybe it could help ground control to better monitor the situation on tways and rways.
Instead of using it only up in the air, we could use it on the ground as well.
Get a dedicated code for ground ops so the ground controller knows exactly where you are at all times.
Once you're on the rway, switch to the "air" code.
Pretty much everything is already in place, we just need to use it a bit differently.
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Old 9th Apr 2015, 15:54
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Aircraft are already squawking on the ground in DUB while taxiing. Area controllers can see the callsign, A/C type and SID on a screen linked to the ground radar, it's used to help them plan how to fit the next departure/departures in with whatever is already airborne. It is nowhere near accurate enough to ensure wing tip clearance.
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