Aer Lingus suspends pilots & ops (merged)
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Roobarb......
Hmm not sure i would rate a staff Vs management
dispute in the same league as America's war on terrorism however each to their own....your post rallying the troops sounds like the sort we have seen recently - normally a video filmed in cave's.
(edit for typing speed not matching brain speed)
Hmm not sure i would rate a staff Vs management
dispute in the same league as America's war on terrorism however each to their own....your post rallying the troops sounds like the sort we have seen recently - normally a video filmed in cave's.
(edit for typing speed not matching brain speed)
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rupetime, if you are suggesting that Aer Lingus flight crews should;
1 throw away their lifestyles to appease the insatiable demands of a rabid management
2 and in so doing participate in practices that could result in compromising the safety of our passengers ,
in order to stop the management from bringing down the airline they are supposed to manage, then so be it. Aer Lingus will be no more.
That is if you are foolish enough to believe any of the rubbish that emenates from Dan Loughery and Willie's propaganda machine. Fact- Aer Lingus is not in danger in going out of business not withstanding the threat from its own management. Flights are full. There is no cash crisis. The airline has not even availed of the draw down facility made available to it after September 11th. We have just had the 1st profitable March in around 20 years of trading. Fiction- Aer Lingus cannot survive without its pilots (5% of costs v. industry average 10%) doing 10 hour turnarounds.
For anyone who does not see what is going on here let me spell it out. Airline managers do not like pilots. They cost too much money. Oneworld management are engaged in a worldwide campaign of pilot union breaking . Lan Chile has fallen. Cathay Pacific has been holed below the waterline. Willie Walsh is in regular contact with Rod Eddington. BA is next. The future- yellow pack Aer Lingus pilots flying oneworld aircraft.
rupetime, I'd sooner work in McDonalds. At least if i burn the burgers I won't be prosecuted or dead.
1 throw away their lifestyles to appease the insatiable demands of a rabid management
2 and in so doing participate in practices that could result in compromising the safety of our passengers ,
in order to stop the management from bringing down the airline they are supposed to manage, then so be it. Aer Lingus will be no more.
That is if you are foolish enough to believe any of the rubbish that emenates from Dan Loughery and Willie's propaganda machine. Fact- Aer Lingus is not in danger in going out of business not withstanding the threat from its own management. Flights are full. There is no cash crisis. The airline has not even availed of the draw down facility made available to it after September 11th. We have just had the 1st profitable March in around 20 years of trading. Fiction- Aer Lingus cannot survive without its pilots (5% of costs v. industry average 10%) doing 10 hour turnarounds.
For anyone who does not see what is going on here let me spell it out. Airline managers do not like pilots. They cost too much money. Oneworld management are engaged in a worldwide campaign of pilot union breaking . Lan Chile has fallen. Cathay Pacific has been holed below the waterline. Willie Walsh is in regular contact with Rod Eddington. BA is next. The future- yellow pack Aer Lingus pilots flying oneworld aircraft.
rupetime, I'd sooner work in McDonalds. At least if i burn the burgers I won't be prosecuted or dead.
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Ronald, sorry Cluckingbell.
I have only met WW on a few occasions and as I am not AL staff
i have little interest in his "propaganda" be it useful or otherwise
but I would say that any strike action by pilots is extremely effective and potentially fatally damaging for an airline regardless of its current profitability or past losses.
How long will the aircraft be full and the profits be plentyfull if the strike goes ahead ?
Whilst not wishing anyone a life in McDonalds unless of course its what you want (did you know 8 years ago McDonalds were employing managers on £30K..not bad huh) I think you all have to be sure possible closure of the company is really a reality
that your happy to accept.
All AL employee's whether pilots or ground staff have the brains to not do something to endanger life or risk prosecution, if WW asked you to fly the aircraft naked would you all do it.......ok dont answer that!
All I say is good luck - one way or another the 97% could well be history makers.
rt
I have only met WW on a few occasions and as I am not AL staff
i have little interest in his "propaganda" be it useful or otherwise
but I would say that any strike action by pilots is extremely effective and potentially fatally damaging for an airline regardless of its current profitability or past losses.
How long will the aircraft be full and the profits be plentyfull if the strike goes ahead ?
Whilst not wishing anyone a life in McDonalds unless of course its what you want (did you know 8 years ago McDonalds were employing managers on £30K..not bad huh) I think you all have to be sure possible closure of the company is really a reality
that your happy to accept.
All AL employee's whether pilots or ground staff have the brains to not do something to endanger life or risk prosecution, if WW asked you to fly the aircraft naked would you all do it.......ok dont answer that!
All I say is good luck - one way or another the 97% could well be history makers.
rt
Last edited by rupetime; 29th May 2002 at 14:02.
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As a fellow airline pilot (not with any Irish Airline)- and seen the new working conditions Aer Lingus are trying to implement I would like to say to each and every EI pilot -Good Luck ,stick together and don't let these new conditions get through-and to every other aircrew member-WE COULD BE NEXT.
Stop the EI Pilot slagging they know what they are doing and the majority of you out there don't know the inside of what willie W@nker is up to.
I look forward to flying with each and every Aer Lingus Pilot in the future keep up the standards guys and Gals.
One final comment -
TO EACH AND EVERY SCAB PILOT FLYING ON THURSDAY -I DON'T LOOK FORWARD TO EVER FLYING WITH YOU'S -YOUR NAMES WILL BE MARKED AND I REALLY HOPE YOUR FLYING CAREERS GRIND TO A HALT
Once again to the pilots in Aer lingus the very best of luck to you in the future.
Islandhopper..
Stop the EI Pilot slagging they know what they are doing and the majority of you out there don't know the inside of what willie W@nker is up to.
I look forward to flying with each and every Aer Lingus Pilot in the future keep up the standards guys and Gals.
One final comment -
TO EACH AND EVERY SCAB PILOT FLYING ON THURSDAY -I DON'T LOOK FORWARD TO EVER FLYING WITH YOU'S -YOUR NAMES WILL BE MARKED AND I REALLY HOPE YOUR FLYING CAREERS GRIND TO A HALT
Once again to the pilots in Aer lingus the very best of luck to you in the future.
Islandhopper..
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rupetime your point is taken and thank you for your good wishes. Rest assured none of us are taking this lightly and none have more to loose. We simply have no choice.
At least I can look forward to a pay raise as a McD's manager.
At least I can look forward to a pay raise as a McD's manager.
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There will be little public support for a strike, other carriers will cover the flying with great pleasure however be assured the cost of using other carriers will have a big effect and hit WW's bottom line.
Putting to oneside the safety concerns of FTL changes there is a risk of serious, possibly terminal, damage to Aer Lingus should this strike take hold.
In the past ive always found that clever rostering and crewing of pilots and cabin crew can actually save money and this is within
any pre-existing ftl's - there is nothing more profitable than a happy and rested pilot...its a type of asset management use the assets well and they can earn you a fortune and work well for you, use it badly and they a) strike b)leave c)make mistakes.
The management should be aware a) is very costly b) is unfortunate c) is disaster.
And when I say clever rostering I mean keeping the company and the individual happy within EXISTING ftl's - ftl's that obviously worked at some point.
RT
Putting to oneside the safety concerns of FTL changes there is a risk of serious, possibly terminal, damage to Aer Lingus should this strike take hold.
In the past ive always found that clever rostering and crewing of pilots and cabin crew can actually save money and this is within
any pre-existing ftl's - there is nothing more profitable than a happy and rested pilot...its a type of asset management use the assets well and they can earn you a fortune and work well for you, use it badly and they a) strike b)leave c)make mistakes.
The management should be aware a) is very costly b) is unfortunate c) is disaster.
And when I say clever rostering I mean keeping the company and the individual happy within EXISTING ftl's - ftl's that obviously worked at some point.
RT
I know nothing of this particular dispute but since this is an open forum and the matter is being discussed in public, I would like to make a couple of comments.
It has been my experience in the past that having to wet-lease aircraft and crews is actually a good thing in the end. The fact that the management is having to spend an arm and a leg to keep going is likely to make them more interested in getting back to the negotiating table.
I have in the past and from time to time still do some flights which are rostered to the CAA minimum rest period of 11 hours. This is based on 10 hours in the hotel (8 hours kip and 1 hour either side of this for other matters). No allowance is made for Guinness time, shopping time or socialising time. Now I would not like to do this 5 days a week but if it is truly a flight safety hazard then why does the CAA allow the practice?
If you want your dispute to succeed then you simply have to get the public on your side. The truth is usually an early casualty in a dispute and it is perception that counts. In the SABENA dispute, whole sections of the community perceived them as being well-paid and privileged and were sick to death with the perception that lots of their tax contributions were going to waste. You simply have to have them on your side if you are going to win.
Finally, always remember that there is always someone out there prepared to do your job for less money and worse terms than you despite the presence of such august bodies as IFALPA etc etc. I well remember catching an (AA) flight out of Denver back in the 80s and seeing CO pilots on a picket line. Apparently they had been there for months. Strolling round either side of them were the replacement CO pilots. I thought it was a sad sad sight.
Good luck but be careful you don't overdo it!
It has been my experience in the past that having to wet-lease aircraft and crews is actually a good thing in the end. The fact that the management is having to spend an arm and a leg to keep going is likely to make them more interested in getting back to the negotiating table.
I have in the past and from time to time still do some flights which are rostered to the CAA minimum rest period of 11 hours. This is based on 10 hours in the hotel (8 hours kip and 1 hour either side of this for other matters). No allowance is made for Guinness time, shopping time or socialising time. Now I would not like to do this 5 days a week but if it is truly a flight safety hazard then why does the CAA allow the practice?
If you want your dispute to succeed then you simply have to get the public on your side. The truth is usually an early casualty in a dispute and it is perception that counts. In the SABENA dispute, whole sections of the community perceived them as being well-paid and privileged and were sick to death with the perception that lots of their tax contributions were going to waste. You simply have to have them on your side if you are going to win.
Finally, always remember that there is always someone out there prepared to do your job for less money and worse terms than you despite the presence of such august bodies as IFALPA etc etc. I well remember catching an (AA) flight out of Denver back in the 80s and seeing CO pilots on a picket line. Apparently they had been there for months. Strolling round either side of them were the replacement CO pilots. I thought it was a sad sad sight.
Good luck but be careful you don't overdo it!
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We should all row in behind EI pilots at this time, maybe those boys who choose to operate the schedule on Tursday might like to mention their support for EI pilots in their PA's???
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Ansett, Swissair, Sabena and now Aer Lingus. Whilst it was good knowing you all, once you're gone there will only be the odd re-union to attend. Oh, well the union's always get you in the end. Rest in Peace.
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Aer Lingus suspends operations
On the airlines web site the company has announced today that it will not be able to continue operations after 31 May 2002. The report blames the pilots because of there reluctance to participate in the companys survival plan.
Rebel PPRuNer
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Interesting timing of EI's hardball measures, two weeks earlier and a lot of minds would have been concentrated, mind you four weeks earlier and I'd have been in deep sh!t!
I wonder is Bertie thinking "hmm... BRU still open for business post SN" and imagining the same status for DUB?
North Dublin might pay for not electing Nora Owen yet, much as I despise her generally.
I wonder is Bertie thinking "hmm... BRU still open for business post SN" and imagining the same status for DUB?
North Dublin might pay for not electing Nora Owen yet, much as I despise her generally.
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Uh, that's not what it says Hudson Bay:
"As a result of strike action by pilots on Thursday 30th May and their ongoing refusal to co-operate with the full implementation of the Survival Plan, Aer Lingus will not be in a position to recommence operations on Friday 31st May or Saturday 1st June. This position will be kept under review on a daily basis."
It just says they won't fly on Friday and Saturday.
"As a result of strike action by pilots on Thursday 30th May and their ongoing refusal to co-operate with the full implementation of the Survival Plan, Aer Lingus will not be in a position to recommence operations on Friday 31st May or Saturday 1st June. This position will be kept under review on a daily basis."
It just says they won't fly on Friday and Saturday.
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Is this a 'lockout'? It sure looks like it, very tried and true union bust tactic.
I don't think the economic survival of the company has anything to do with rostering or FTLs. It usually has to do with debt financing and management techniques. Pilots payrolls rarely make up enough of the operational costs to have that much effect on the bottom line.
The management is on an obvious union bust. It is a power grab and nothing else.
Good luck Gents.
I don't think the economic survival of the company has anything to do with rostering or FTLs. It usually has to do with debt financing and management techniques. Pilots payrolls rarely make up enough of the operational costs to have that much effect on the bottom line.
The management is on an obvious union bust. It is a power grab and nothing else.
Good luck Gents.
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I do not know all the facts but if I am right in assuming that EI management are now expecting crews to operate illegally outside the Cap371 or IAA equivalent then obviously this is a disgrace. Surely the regulatory authorities are getting involved. Or is it the case that the management have ammended working conditions, but within legal limits??
I wish EI the very best of luck.
I wish EI the very best of luck.
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Thanks for the good wishes folks! A special thanks to the Oneworld Cockpit Crew Association for their ad in todays Irish Times. THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT AER LINGUS, IT AFFECTS OUR PROFESSION WORLDWIDE.
HOLD THE LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOLD THE LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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For my benefit, can someone please clarify:
a) EXACTLY what the company are trying to institute for 'rest'
b) what the legal documents call for
c) what the 'industrial agreement' calls for
I cannot see this anywhere, despite a request on page 1, and, perhaps unsurpisingly, I've heard nothing from BALPA.
a) EXACTLY what the company are trying to institute for 'rest'
b) what the legal documents call for
c) what the 'industrial agreement' calls for
I cannot see this anywhere, despite a request on page 1, and, perhaps unsurpisingly, I've heard nothing from BALPA.
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extract from the "Guardian"
The Aer Lingus board is to meet tomorrow to discuss its latest industrial relations crisis amid fresh speculation that the airline might be close to collapse.
The dispute between management and pilots took a turn for the worse yesterday when the company announced it could not guarantee services beyond tomorrow, when the pilots hold a one-day strike.
The company blamed the pilot' "ongoing refusal to co-operate with the full implementation of the [company's] survial plan" for its decision to cease operations on Friday. "
The Aer Lingus board is to meet tomorrow to discuss its latest industrial relations crisis amid fresh speculation that the airline might be close to collapse.
The dispute between management and pilots took a turn for the worse yesterday when the company announced it could not guarantee services beyond tomorrow, when the pilots hold a one-day strike.
The company blamed the pilot' "ongoing refusal to co-operate with the full implementation of the [company's] survial plan" for its decision to cease operations on Friday. "
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Just because it is in the paper, doesn't mean it's true. Airline managers hire some of the best spin doctors in the world because they know they are dealing with a highly intelligent work force.
Keep the faith boys!
Keep the faith boys!