Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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speed of sound
"A bomb--would have to have been a good one and well placed."
Would it? We are talking a pressurized hull here. A fistful of plastic would be more than enough, anywhere within the hull
"A bomb--would have to have been a good one and well placed."
Would it? We are talking a pressurized hull here. A fistful of plastic would be more than enough, anywhere within the hull
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Whilst the 2 (possibly 3) people travelling on stolen passports are an obvious line of enquiry, it's just as likely that those travelling on them could've been doing so for other reasons such as drug smuggling, illegal immigration etc.
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BEIJING: U.S. officials said on Saturday they are investigating terrorism concerns after two people listed as passengers on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 turned out not to be on the plane and had reported their passports stolen, according to NBCnews.com
"We are aware of the reporting on the two stolen passports," one senior official said.
"We have not determined a nexus to terrorism yet, although it's still very early, and that’s by no means definitive.”
U.S. officials said they were checking into passenger manifests and going back through intelligence.
No Italian was on board the missing flight, the Italian Foreign Ministry said on Saturday, despite an Italian citizen being included on the passenger list.
The passenger list provided by the company includes Luigi Maraldi, 37, an Italian citizen.
Newspaper Corriere Della Sera reported that Maraldi's passport was stolen in Thailand last August. The Italian Interior Ministry was unable to immediately comment on the report.
Austrian Foreign Ministry says the Austrian citizen reported to be on the flight is safe. The passport was stolen. – ANN/China Daily
"We are aware of the reporting on the two stolen passports," one senior official said.
"We have not determined a nexus to terrorism yet, although it's still very early, and that’s by no means definitive.”
U.S. officials said they were checking into passenger manifests and going back through intelligence.
No Italian was on board the missing flight, the Italian Foreign Ministry said on Saturday, despite an Italian citizen being included on the passenger list.
The passenger list provided by the company includes Luigi Maraldi, 37, an Italian citizen.
Newspaper Corriere Della Sera reported that Maraldi's passport was stolen in Thailand last August. The Italian Interior Ministry was unable to immediately comment on the report.
Austrian Foreign Ministry says the Austrian citizen reported to be on the flight is safe. The passport was stolen. – ANN/China Daily
Bomb issue
I would think that a bomb would leave a lot of surface debris, and a fireball that many would have been reporting on by now.
It was a clear night with other planes in the sky.
A fist full of plastic would have to be of very good quality and placed pretty well.
Aloha landed with 20 feet of the fuselage blown away from fatigue failure. I know, not the same differential.
Not saying it isn't possible.
Again....no one taking credit it for it ....yet.
It was a clear night with other planes in the sky.
A fist full of plastic would have to be of very good quality and placed pretty well.
Aloha landed with 20 feet of the fuselage blown away from fatigue failure. I know, not the same differential.
Not saying it isn't possible.
Again....no one taking credit it for it ....yet.
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potential area is maximum 400 km by 400 km
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Sop_Monkey
Would it? We are talking a pressurized hull here. A fistful of plastic would be more than enough, anywhere within the hull
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I would think that a bomb would leave a lot of surface debris, and a fireball that many would have been reporting on by now.
If this was indeed caused by an explosive device it was definitely no shoe or underpants bomb. Anyone with the capability to smuggle a real bomb on board and detonate it in flight, would not be traveling on a 2 year old stolen passport.
Was a "liquid ban" in force at the first security point on this flight?
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Search area
160000 square kilometers is certainly a wide area.
But it's only a first guess as a more detailed analysis of radar data will surely guide SAR activities on a much more limited area.
What is important is water depth : investigators won't need to go 4 kilometers underwater once the crash side is identified.
But it's only a first guess as a more detailed analysis of radar data will surely guide SAR activities on a much more limited area.
What is important is water depth : investigators won't need to go 4 kilometers underwater once the crash side is identified.
Last edited by llagonne66; 8th Mar 2014 at 22:07. Reason: Typo
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Could this be a possibility?
I don't have much experience on the triple seven, mainly the older B707 and A310's etc but in spite of the much stricter security on entry to the cockpit these days, just hypothetically, IF a couple of guys did access the flight deck (behind a Hostess maybe?) would it be possible to simply take over (disable the crew) and drive the aircraft straight into the water without any flight data etc. being transmitted back to the MAS base?
After 9/11 there can be no doubt that terrorists would be very familiar how to shut down transponders, radio comms and maybe ACARS if fitted etc.etc.
Apologies if this has been addressed already but just too many posts on this tragedy to vet them all to see if this has been raised before .........
I would still think that even with the slackness of security at many of the Asian airports, it would have to be a decent size bomb to bring the aircraft down without any attempt to put out some sort of a radio call ..........?
God forbid, could it be the "first" of the much talked about undetectable mini bombs that are virtually impossible to pick up on (questionable) security checks on passengers?
I know we are all just going in circles now and rehashing the same subjects over and over again hoping for an answer but the "sudden disappearance" of this piece of equipment without a trace has to make one think outside of the box and this is what seems to destroy many of the feasible scenarios to date!
After 9/11 there can be no doubt that terrorists would be very familiar how to shut down transponders, radio comms and maybe ACARS if fitted etc.etc.
Apologies if this has been addressed already but just too many posts on this tragedy to vet them all to see if this has been raised before .........
I would still think that even with the slackness of security at many of the Asian airports, it would have to be a decent size bomb to bring the aircraft down without any attempt to put out some sort of a radio call ..........?
God forbid, could it be the "first" of the much talked about undetectable mini bombs that are virtually impossible to pick up on (questionable) security checks on passengers?
I know we are all just going in circles now and rehashing the same subjects over and over again hoping for an answer but the "sudden disappearance" of this piece of equipment without a trace has to make one think outside of the box and this is what seems to destroy many of the feasible scenarios to date!
Basic question.
Do jetliners communicate much with each other during long flights or is the protocol to remain silent unless reporting unusual conditions?
It seems that MH370 had plenty of company in the area, so wondering if there is any insight to be gathered from communications with these other flights.
Do jetliners communicate much with each other during long flights or is the protocol to remain silent unless reporting unusual conditions?
It seems that MH370 had plenty of company in the area, so wondering if there is any insight to be gathered from communications with these other flights.
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Benign weather conditions
Two (maybe more) passengers travelling under false pretences.
A political motive.
Timing of incident during flight
An airline, crew and aeroplane with outstanding safety record.
Means. Motive. Opportunity.
The odds on an act of terrorism have shortened dramatically.
Two (maybe more) passengers travelling under false pretences.
A political motive.
Timing of incident during flight
An airline, crew and aeroplane with outstanding safety record.
Means. Motive. Opportunity.
The odds on an act of terrorism have shortened dramatically.
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I'm not sure what kind of screening happens to bags internally post checkin but I know from 30-40 of my own flights within Malaysia and KLIA outbound (internationally) that typically checked in luggage is pre-screened by MAHB upon entering the check in area. This is typically a larger carry on style scanning machine (rapidscan) and on exit the bags receive a sticker from MAHB indicating the bag has been scanned. Carry on luggage does not need to go through this scanning. Upon checking in the bag while getting a boarding pass the airline agent will look for this sticker and if not found will require the passenger to go get it scanned at the entrance again. Now if the checked in bags are not rescanned post-checkin then there are serious holes here as the stickers are easy to manipulate such that they could be transferred from one bag to another, or the scanned bag reopened and "resealed." Additionally it's not difficult to get an unscanned bag into the checkin area (although this varies by airport, but commonly just enter via the exit) and then transfer a sticker. The ticketing agents aren't exactly checking the stickers in detail either. However, all of this hinges on checked in bags not being rescanned yet another time before being loaded onto the plane. Based on the number of glaring holes apparent it would seem they most likely are scanned post-conveyor and the pre-screening gates are mostly superfluous/feel-good.
That being said, my gut feeling is some kind of catastrophic event in-flight and I'm not so sure how much I believe terrorism/bombing is behind it. I only throw out the bag details because one never knows these days.
That being said, my gut feeling is some kind of catastrophic event in-flight and I'm not so sure how much I believe terrorism/bombing is behind it. I only throw out the bag details because one never knows these days.
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Talking to other jets
Pretty rarely, it is certainly not the norm as the only frequency "available" is 121.5 MHz, being an emergency channel and chatter is not encouraged on it!
Other VHF and HF channels are maybe used to pass on a position report or at the request of ATC, but to answer your question, 99% NOT DONE,
Other VHF and HF channels are maybe used to pass on a position report or at the request of ATC, but to answer your question, 99% NOT DONE,
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Mickjoebill asked
It is some time since I last flew through KLIA, but when I used a domestic MAS service there was screening before boarding, and, again before immigration. However, it doesn't preclude someone from another location coming in. I guess they'll be checking the tickets to the stolen passports.
On a side note, I have twice had my credit card 'cloned' in that region, and both times the card was used to purchase flights.
Was a "liquid ban" in force at the first security point on this flight?
On a side note, I have twice had my credit card 'cloned' in that region, and both times the card was used to purchase flights.
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Experts talk on Yahoo Malaysia
Yahoo Malaysia quotes Todd Curtis, former Boeing's safety engineer and 777 expert:
Read the full article here:
Why Malaysia Airlines jet might have disappeared
At this early stage, we're focusing on the facts that we don't know," said Todd Curtis, a former safety engineer with Boeing who worked on its 777 jumbo jets and is now director of the Airsafe.com Foundation.
If there was a minor mechanical failure — or even something more serious like the shutdown of both of the plane's engines — the pilots likely would have had time to radio for help. The lack of a call "suggests something very sudden and very violent happened," said William Waldock, who teaches accident investigation at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Prescott, Ariz.
It initially appears that there was either an abrupt breakup of the plane or something that led it into a quick, steep dive. Some experts even suggested an act of terrorism or a pilot purposely crashing the jet.
"Either you had a catastrophic event that tore the airplane apart, or you had a criminal act," said Scott Hamilton, managing director of aviation consultancy Leeham Co. "It was so quick and they didn't radio."
If there was a minor mechanical failure — or even something more serious like the shutdown of both of the plane's engines — the pilots likely would have had time to radio for help. The lack of a call "suggests something very sudden and very violent happened," said William Waldock, who teaches accident investigation at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Prescott, Ariz.
It initially appears that there was either an abrupt breakup of the plane or something that led it into a quick, steep dive. Some experts even suggested an act of terrorism or a pilot purposely crashing the jet.
"Either you had a catastrophic event that tore the airplane apart, or you had a criminal act," said Scott Hamilton, managing director of aviation consultancy Leeham Co. "It was so quick and they didn't radio."
Why Malaysia Airlines jet might have disappeared
A comment on disabling avionics:
In the scenario of a flight deck invasion, why would a perpetrator bent on plunging an aircraft into the sea care about transponders/acars/radio? There's nothing that any ground agency could do about it, nor would disabling change the facts nor would it hide the act. So why? Who would benefit?
It would be astonishing if the passport thing turns out to be a red herring. With regard to the number of passengers flying under false pretenses: what happened in the innocent 80's is hardly a template for what should be common today, especially post-9/11.
It would be astonishing if the passport thing turns out to be a red herring. With regard to the number of passengers flying under false pretenses: what happened in the innocent 80's is hardly a template for what should be common today, especially post-9/11.