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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 3rd Jun 2014, 18:10
  #10901 (permalink)  
 
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I followed BOAC`s lead and looked at the enroute charts for crossings of the Indian Ocean. All SW bound routes converge at Plaisance. A327 and B344 may offer suitable routing, particularly if already present in the FMC.
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 08:43
  #10902 (permalink)  
 
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Curtin University's underwater microphone arrays

Reports starting to appear in AUS and other press about Curtin University's analysis of data received by underwater microphone arrays off the coast of Western Australia.

MH370: Indian Ocean crash may have been heard by underwater microphones | World news | theguardian.com
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 09:15
  #10903 (permalink)  
 
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Curtin underwater sound

Actually, a little further information today from the ABC.

Curtin university researchers investigate possible MH370 signal recorded off Perth - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 17:02
  #10904 (permalink)  
 
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This is getting silly

I have to say that when I signed up I thought this was a forum for Professional Pilots. I wonder where they have gone?

How come all this talk about someone who may, or may not, have seen something although the day/night on which she saw it is uncertain and who knows what it was she thinks she saw? Surely the recent statements of Emirates Chairman, Tim Clark are far more deserving of consideration, after all, he operates one of the largest fleets of B777 and is likely as familiar and likely more familiar with the aircraft than most posting here. His questions and concerns are certainly worthy of consideration and comment and although dismissed here the question "where were the fighters?" has never been properly answered. He is also quoted as saying "I need to know how anybody could interdict our systems,” as well as “this aircraft was disabled in three primary systems. To be able to disable those requires a knowledge of the system which even our pilots don’t know how to do. Somebody got on board and knew exactly what they were up to.”

Seems to me we should be paying attention to what matters!
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 17:29
  #10905 (permalink)  
 
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"where were the fighters?"
On the ground.

AstraMike:

Are Tim Clark's comments/concerns posted somewhere that you can link to?
Per your point on his background, a read well worth the time.

That last point you raised
"I need to know how anybody could interdict our systems,” as well as “this aircraft was disabled in three primary systems. To be able to disable those requires a knowledge of the system which even our pilots don’t know how to do. Somebody got on board and knew exactly what they were up to.”
strikes me as a "nail hit on the head" observation.
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 18:28
  #10906 (permalink)  
 
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@Lonewolf 50:

Are Tim Clark's comments/concerns posted somewhere that you can link to?
Link below:
Emirates? Clark Sees MH370 Investigation Deficiencies | Commercial Aviation content from Aviation Week
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 18:44
  #10907 (permalink)  
 
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this aircraft was disabled in three primary systems.
I presume this statement refers to VHF voice, ACARS and the SSR transponder.

I remember hearing a statement by a Malaysian official in an early presser that one or more of these had been disabled. However, I don't recall ever seeing an explanation of how the investigators know that these systems were deliberately disabled by human intervention (which is the interpretation constantly assumed here and elsewhere, not least in what I've seen of Tim Clarke's remarks), as opposed to transmissions from them simply ceasing to be received past a certain time, for reasons unknown.

Could someone enlighten me? Were logoff or shutdown messages received from some source? I haven't seen reference to such in the disclosed ACARS information, and I didn't think that audio transceivers and SSR transponders did such things.
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 18:57
  #10908 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DespairingTraveller View Post
Could someone enlighten me? Were logoff or shutdown messages received from some source? I haven't seen reference to such in the disclosed ACARS information, and I didn't think that audio transceivers and SSR transponders did such things.
I'm not aware of any such evidence. The SATCOM logs, for example, didn't show any kind of logoff message from the aircraft, it just stopped transmitting for a while around the time the transponder went off.

To me, that tends to imply a power failure, but that power failure could be due to human actions.
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 19:16
  #10909 (permalink)  
 
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Emirates? Clark Sees MH370 Investigation Deficiencies | Commercial Aviation content from Aviation Week
“We have never lost an aeroplane in 50 years, we have always known where they are. Whoever was clever enough to interdict the system, will be able to interdict this one as well.” To [Tim] Clark, tracking is not the main issue: “the first thing you need to do is do not allow anybody on board to disable ACARS – job done.”
I don't think Clark understands probability and luck. There but for the grace of God ...

So, is the answer pilotless airliners?

You can only go on the information you have, and that's not much. But there's no indication anyone but the PIC had the knowledge or opportunity to deliberately disappear.
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 21:39
  #10910 (permalink)  
 
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I don't understand Tim's comment re his pilots not knowing how to turn off vhf,hf, and acars.

Turn of VHF and HF , acar is dead because no sat con acars on MAS.

Many pilots on here say no way to not being able to turn off systems in the case of fire for example, how does thisstack up to Tim's statement.

What am I missing or mis-understanding please.
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 21:55
  #10911 (permalink)  
 
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You know, you might deliberately turn off something because there is smoke coming out from behind its panel.
There is deliberate with intent and deliberate with cause.
One may lead you to be suspicious the other is common sense.
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 22:19
  #10912 (permalink)  
 
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stopped transmitting for a while around the time the transponder went off
more accurately..... "sometime between 17:07 and 18:25"
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 22:49
  #10913 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Backoffice View Post
You know, you might deliberately turn off something because there is smoke coming out from behind its panel.
There is deliberate with intent and deliberate with cause.
One may lead you to be suspicious the other is common sense.
I agree but he seemed to say his pilots wouldn't know how to.
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 23:01
  #10914 (permalink)  
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Tim Clark interview was nice. Except for assumptions about MAS ability to track Aircraft and its ACARS subscription service. He seemed to compare it to Emirates which more than likely has a full subscription to these services. MAS didn't subscribe and it Operations Control was using an Internet based free Aircraft Tracking software, which is becoming the norm for Low Cost Operators but is spreading to larger ones to curb costs. The LCC I worked for in Singapore for example didn't use ACARS. We as Pilots were still using VOLMET HF and VHF for our ETOPS flights. Which seemed idiotic but was apparently legal in that state. Our Chief Pilot ( ex Large European LCC)was dead set against ACARS usage, hence all our Aircraft were disabled in that regard. The only connection available was the engineering side. At my current Airline we use ACARS all the time and we see the benefits immensely. This Low Cost disease of saving money by not subscribing to ACARS has caught in Asia. And the usage of these free tracking systems has taken over and honestly its dangerous. The MAS OCC were telling ATC that MH370 was in Cambodian Airspace for hours after ATC lost it at Igari, because there were using this free tracking software. Don't get me wrong this software is great for enthusiasts, but officially something more accurate needs to be used.
The thing about this latest IATA conference in Dubai, did they talk about the Lithium Ion battery carriage rules again? This definitely needs to be attended too.
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Old 4th Jun 2014, 23:36
  #10915 (permalink)  
 
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"I need to know how anybody could interdict our systems,” as well as “this aircraft was disabled in three primary systems. To be able to disable those requires a knowledge of the system which even our pilots don’t know how to do. Somebody got on board and knew exactly what they were up to.”
How can anyone assess with such confidence what things his employees don't know?

It is known (or at least it is to be hoped) that the pilots are thoroughly familiar with many, if not most, of the systems on board. Of course, there will be some aspects of the aircraft that pilots are not explicitly trained in; a pilot is not expected to be able to build his aircraft from scratch.

There may be ways to disable certain systems that pilots are not trained to know about, but then, nobody is born with that knowledge; it must be learned somewhere. And surely a trained and qualified 777 pilot is further along that road to knowledge than anyone else?

The implication that a terrorist or terrorists unknown, coming from outside the aviation industry, have the ability to learn such things more readily than persons who start their acquisition of knowledge from the position of type-qualified pilots is, frankly, bizarre.

If it can be done, any intelligent and motivated person can learn to do it. Complex failure modes can be the result of deliberate action - and as Backoffice points out, this may not imply malice, but can arise from a genuine attempt to prevent disaster.

Complex failure modes can also result from damage to systems; while not readily reproducible, it is nevertheless common for fires and other escalating failures to produce patterns of failure that common sense would suggest were hugely implausible.

The evidence presented so far is insufficient to rule out any of the following:

Deliberate malicious act by one or more passengers
Deliberate malicious act by one or more crew
Deliberate crew actions intended to prevent or mitigate disaster (unsuccessful)
Non-deliberate failure of one or more systems leading to fire or structural damage, resulting in an unusually complex series of events

In other words, despite the vast quantity of ink and pixels expended so far, all that is really known is that the aircraft went missing; and that there is some good evidence, including primary radar traces and the INMARSAT pings, that it re-crossed the Malay peninsula, and then headed into the southern Indian Ocean, after it disappeared from secondary radar.

Any hypothesis that fits those facts is possible; none are plausible; one is correct.

Last edited by bilby_qld; 5th Jun 2014 at 01:59.
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Old 5th Jun 2014, 00:51
  #10916 (permalink)  
 
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ATSB Tender for MH370 Search

ATSB has, this morning, released the tender documents for the MH370 search. You need to be registered to download it but synopsis is available from AUStender at this link:

http://www.tenders.gov.au/?event=pub...BEB3C04BEB2FB0

The tender itself calls for a complete range of services and specifies the detail to which the search is to be conducted including the requirement to provide raw search data for others to analyse independently of the contractor and daily, weekly and monthly reporting of activities.
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Old 5th Jun 2014, 03:48
  #10917 (permalink)  
 
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Tim Clark Interview

If one would be willing to take Emirates Chairman Tim Clark's statement at face value, then passenger #240 has reared it's ugly head again.
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Old 5th Jun 2014, 05:48
  #10918 (permalink)  
 
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Curtin University Acoustic Signals

Acoustic signal received at Rottnest at 1:30am UTC. The final ping arc is about 2,000km from Perth. Sound travels 1500m/s in seawater. This means it would have taken 22mins to reach Rottnest from the final ping arc, which would be 1:08am UTC. Final satcom communication at 00:19am, 49mins difference. Is it possible to glide 49mins in a 777?
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Old 5th Jun 2014, 06:24
  #10919 (permalink)  
 
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Its now all blood under the bridge. Introduce transmission of recorder data asap. Let us work on stopping the next one happening.
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Old 5th Jun 2014, 06:31
  #10920 (permalink)  
 
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The 7th Arc from ATSB

The 7th Arc
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