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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:02
  #7961 (permalink)  
 
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@syseng68k
It's actually much easier to recover data from over-written digital media. FBI software can recover data from digital media that has been over-written multiple times, or reformatted repeatedly.
Absolutely false. As mentioned before, it is simply impossible to recover any physically overwritten digital information.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:03
  #7962 (permalink)  
 
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How would that affect the arcs that they have published and how far down those arcs the aircraft might have flown.
The aircraft did not fly down the arc. The arc represents the possible range of locations when the final 'ping' was received.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:05
  #7963 (permalink)  
 
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Howard Hughes and others

I'm going to lift a couple of sections out of Capt Kremin's previous post here because it's evident that investigators will already know, based on the exact location of the previous six pings, whether the excursion south was likely to have been accidental or deliberate.


In the case of the "Ghost plane" scenario the aircraft, after it turned WNW would have been either tracking to a programmed FMC waypoint or it would have been in a lateral AP mode referenced on magnetic north, HDG or TRK, it does not really matter. If tracking to the FMC waypoint, once it reached it, it would have reverted to HDG.

For the aircraft to track direct to the area of the last known ping and the current search area, there are only two ways to do it. One is a programmed FMC waypoint and the other is someone flying the aircraft via the HDG or TRK button and taking into account the 30-35 degree change in magnetic variation encountered along the route.


His point is that the track revealed by the pings will show either a direct straight path, or one which curves due to reversionary AP modes and changes in magnetic variation. His post is complete with charts etc and is currently number 7541. Well worth reading.

A straight path would indicate a deliberate diversion. Since investigators are labelling the route deviation a deliberate diversion, it would be reasonable on this basis to rule out a ghost plane - and it doesn't really matter from which exact point the diversion south commenced, though his reasoning is based on the point 200nm WNW of Penang.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:07
  #7964 (permalink)  
 
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Has anyone asked the question as to whether the Malaysians had been warned about potential terrorist activity on this flight?

Journos - perhaps a good question to ask at the next news conference.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:21
  #7965 (permalink)  
 
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...hopefully the NTSB / AAIB / Malaysian / French investigators retain open minds; for example that all comms and pilots could have been wiped out by an event as yet unknown and it flew itself to its final resting point.
...but magically only the autopilot kept working?
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:23
  #7966 (permalink)  
 
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The worst type of terrorism would be to make an aeroplane vanish, then do it again.

Pilot suicide is an easy way out for the Authorities.

Slow decompression ala Helios has to be a strong possibility perhaps with one last confused pilot input or passenger input befiore she went down. Smouldering fire may have the same effect and take out systems also.

The turning off of systems has not been adequately explained, black box may do so.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:25
  #7967 (permalink)  
 
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Blake777

A straight path would indicate a deliberate diversion. Since investigators are labelling the route deviation a deliberate diversion, it would be reasonable on this basis to rule out a ghost plane
I totally agree with the conclusion, that once established whether the flight path was a path of constant magnetic heading or was a great circle, then it can be inferred if it was deliberate action.

Captain Kremin visualized that very well.

I don't agree that we can conjecture yet, that the investigators have already established whether the flight path was constant heading or great circle.

I was always wondering why only the last section of the tracks in the AMSA maps are depicted. I think those paths are only symbolic because a path of constant heading would appear to come out of direction of Diego Garcia. NTSB doesn't want to complicate the matter to the public by explaining magnetic deviation and rhumb lines and that's the reason for only displaying symbolic tracks.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:27
  #7968 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely false. As mentioned before, it is simply impossible to recover any physically overwritten digital information.
Not so absolute...

While solid state media cannot retain overwritten information, hard disk drives CAN retain forensically retrievable information. That is why the US Dept of Defense has had long-standing protocols for multiple repeated overwrites of HDDs to completely erase classified information.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:31
  #7969 (permalink)  
 
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EPIRB (Emergency Position-Indicating Radio Beacon)

I am having some serious trouble believing that it is beyond the ability of the worlds aircraft manufacturer's to retrofit several EPIRB's to the outside of the fuselage of modern airliners.

Google; SMARTFIND G5 GPS (AUTO FLOAT FREE) they cost about 500

MH370 would have been located in minutes and the wreckage found in hours.

With the relatively simple addition of a solid state memory unit storing the last six hours of information fed to the FDR/CVR would result in EVERYTHING that had happened being known within hours not days or weeks or years or never....

For God's sake, I could build one
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:40
  #7970 (permalink)  

Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
 
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The aircraft did not fly down the arc. The arc represents the possible range of locations when the final 'ping' was received.
I'm aware of that but the search area is based on the arcs and the area of search has apparently been based on 450kts if Inmarsat are to be believed.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:49
  #7971 (permalink)  
 
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...hopefully the NTSB / AAIB / Malaysian / French investigators retain open minds; for example that all comms and pilots could have been wiped out by an event as yet unknown and it flew itself to its final resting point.
Originally Posted by GlueBall View Post
...but magically only the autopilot kept working?
Well it was suggested way back on this thread by those who know about the busses for the comms systems (VHF, xpdr, ACARS,...), that they're separate to those for the autopilot? But your scepticism may well be justified.

Last edited by Golf-Mike-Mike; 25th Mar 2014 at 11:01.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:49
  #7972 (permalink)  
 
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@ HH:

Quote:
Yes that may be one obvious conclusion but hopefully the NTSB / AAIB / Malaysian / French investigators retain open minds; for example that all comms and pilots could have been wiped out by an event as yet unknown and it flew itself to its final resting point.
That's what I'm sticking with at the moment!
Dual AIMS cabinet fail?

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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:50
  #7973 (permalink)  
 
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JAMES07

Plus no activation of the portable ELT by the cabin crew.
Assume you mean active them and hold by windows each side of the aircraft hoping it would be picked up by satellite or other aircraft.

A cabin crew member posted that they were never taught that might work, but he would mention it to their training staff. That's just one airline wonder what the others do?
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:55
  #7974 (permalink)  
 
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loss of acars

well maybe he couldnt get any response from vhf 1 so tried box 2, no joy there so try box 3 which is set to DATA, one quick press of the transfer button and its on vhf, but no joy either, doesnt return the setting to data. so no acars
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 10:56
  #7975 (permalink)  
 
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Google; SMARTFIND G5 GPS (AUTO FLOAT FREE) they cost about 500

MH370 would have been located in minutes and the wreckage found in hours.
You can forget the idea of one of these being of any use. The impact energy of a vessel capsizing is just a little bit less than a 500mph impact with the sea.
The maximum test applied to marine EPIRBs is something like a 20m drop into water or a 1m drop onto a wooden floor.

Fitting marine EPIRBs would simply add to the debris field, that is all.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 11:02
  #7976 (permalink)  
 
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It's time for flight decks to be fitted with a portable oxygen cylinder and mask.

Oxygen cylinders have ruptured in the past and punctured the fuselage.

Imagine the one and only oxygen cylinder for both pilots ruptured and punctured the fuselage.

Imagine cruising at high altitude, explosive decompression, (possibly taking out some avionics) grabbing for your mask and seeing the webbing not inflate.

It's a nasty scenario and one that would see cabin occupants being awake longer than flight deck crew.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 11:12
  #7977 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by talkpedlar View Post
Just my two centsworth.. but if I was planning a suicide run I would certainly choose to start my deviation from flight-plan route at the point of ATC frequency changeover... you've said 'bye to the previous centre and the next one will probably wait an age before alarm bells ring... As I said, just MHO.. but seemingly what happened here.

TP
The catastrophic event right at the ATC handover point of time, the following weird track of the aircraft (with the FMC route altered beforehand), the altitude changes (up, down, up again) and the final course set to one of the most remote areas of this world where recovery of bodies, wreckage and CVR/FDR are nearly impossible.

I don't know. All of this could have a trivial and hardly sensational explanation that in hindsight will perfectly fit the facts we know at the moment, but I have a strange feeling about it. Something just doesn't look right.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 11:14
  #7978 (permalink)  
 
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Ah yes, one of the "it-can't-be-done" brigade.
Not what I said. A marine EPIRB would not be good enough.

Now if you want to design an aero EPIRB with full impact encapsulation and ED-12 certified software then that is another matter and another price.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 11:14
  #7979 (permalink)  
 
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I think that this now shows that the idea of just the onboard black boxes must change...Airfrance and now this crash must push for an external radio recording device to be retro fitted to all transport planes a.s.a.p.
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Old 25th Mar 2014, 11:22
  #7980 (permalink)  
 
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Press release

The Minister of Transport just said that a detailed Press release will be given just after the PC, with some detailed data from AAIB.
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