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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 13th Mar 2014, 22:30
  #2941 (permalink)  
 
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flash8 How is the engine data transmitted?

Does the Engine send data via one of the ARINC buses to a RR decoder/transmitter device in the bay and then to an existing antenna for onward dissemination?


Usually it is through ACARS either via Sat, VHF Data, or HF Data. Maybe this aircraft had its own antenna.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 22:31
  #2942 (permalink)  
 
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If the new search area is now to the northwest of the Strait of Malacca, into the Andaman Sea, the plane had to change its heading.

The Malaysian authorities stated it was last observed on their radar near Palau Perak a small island, at the top and middle of the Strait, located west northwest of Georgetown on the west coast of Malaysia. Palau Perak is west southwest of the position when the transponder signal was lost. If it did not change its heading, the plane would overfly northern Indonesia, the province of Aceh, devastated by the tsunami.

So if you have engines running, communication link still functioning, and a change in heading.....
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 22:42
  #2943 (permalink)  
 
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White House: Hunt for missing airliner may extend to Indian Ocean - The Washington Post

One senior administration official said the data showing the plane engines running hours after contact was lost came from the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System, or ACARS, a way that planes maintain contact with ground stations through radio or satellite signals. The official said Malaysian authorities shared the flight data with the administration.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 22:48
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One senior administration official said the data showing the plane engines running hours after contact was lost came from the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System, or ACARS,
Are they suggesting ACARS was operational but the only thing transmitted was engine data? Strange that the airline did not report this.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 22:48
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If the a/c flew to Pulau Perak, then it flew right above Langwaki International Airport. No detection by radar ?
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 22:51
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How many runway options are there for a B777 on the Andaman and Nicobar Islands?
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 22:55
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re: "And you go to Car Nicobar????"

not at all likely, since India is deploying SAR assets from that airport, Washington Post quote below:

"Indian coast guard and navy aircraft were also pressed into service from a base on the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. A senior Indian official said late Thursday that a total of three ships, two planes and a helicopter have now been dispatched in the growing search effort."
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 22:58
  #2948 (permalink)  
 
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Re-post 2968

There is no access to E&E bay from the flight deck. Two-Thirds of CBs are located in the E&E bay including the Sat Com CBs

But then different airlines different configurations as to location of sat com cbs
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 23:02
  #2949 (permalink)  
 
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How is the engine data transmitted?
No FADEC (at least on Boeing) has it's own downlink capability. Engine data is sent to the airplane over ARINC 429 (in the case of the 777) where other systems (e.g. ACARS) downlink and/or store the data.
Assuming Engine Condition Monitoring reports were actually transmitted, I'd expect them to include altitude, airspeed, and total temp in addition to the actual relevant engine data. Lat and Long would not typically be included in ECM downlink.
Useful data as to the location of the aircraft when the report was transmitted probably not be in the data set itself, but might be obtained from the downlink path (e.g. what station or satellite received the data).
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 23:03
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Already stated, there are other ways of determining engine running status other than via acars....
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 23:03
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Engine Health Monitoring

There is so much utter tosh being spouted about what data was sent from this aircraft I'm not surprised that most truly professional pilots have packed their bags and left this thread long ago!

As an ex-employee of an airline that actually used this facility let me try and explain how this generation (mid to late 90s) actually works. I'm not an engineer so fine detail may need some correction from genuine experts.

Data snapshots of engine parameters are sent, depending on how the airline has set up its support package, either directly to Rolls Royce or via the airline. This is done via ACARS using, typically, VHF radio link, though via satellite if specified. which for this generation of aircraft is unlikely.

Usually, these snapshots are taken and transmitted in near real time for Take-off climb and cruise. If the aircraft is out of range, the information is stored and transmitted once a suitable ACARS link is re-established. There was a New Scientist article being referenced yesterday by many media that stated that Rolls received two such data bursts: Take off and climb before ACARS link was routinely lost. Comments by the Malaysian defence minister and Malaysia Airlines CEO at Thursday's media briefing would fit into this stating that the last data was received just after 0100 local - well before contact was officially lost and less than 30 mins after take off.

All the airline and engine manufacturer expects from this generation of engine is time-stamped data on temps, pressures, shaft speeds, fuel flow, mach number etc.. Not where the engine is.

Such data would routinely be passed on to investigators and involved parties in the event of a serious incident or accident. If an official investigation was underway or anticipated, then this info could only be made public via the investigating authority.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 23:06
  #2952 (permalink)  
 
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"perspective people" What should be glaringly obvious by now is that Malaysia have no dedicated maritime search and rescue capability. A situation I'm sure will change after this event.

MH370 has crashed, probably due to a fire or some other catastrophic event. It will be located within 300 miles of it's last known position, the closer it is to that position the more embarrassing it will be. The debris field should be washing up on coastal beaches in the next couple of days.

Patience, it will be found, That is a certainty.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 23:07
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ABC News now reporting; systems were shut down at different times, indicating not a catastrophic or mechanical failure as much as a human being decision.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 23:14
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TURIN

I noted your original post saying that the crew O2 bottle fittings were on the aft side of the bottle and thought that the the wind was blown out of my hypothetical sail.

However. I have done some more research on the QF30 incident and found in the Australian Transport Safety Bureau report that the bottle was propelled upward through the cabin floor where it damaged a door handle and some trim, then dove back through the hole in the floor and exited the aircraft via the hole in the fuselage... RUBBISH??? Thats what I thought.

However. There is a photo tab on the web page. The last photo of the set is of an O2 bottle sized hole in the floor panel directly above the hole in the fuselage.

The Pax O2 bottles in the 747 fwd cargo sidewall stand vertically, plumbing on top, so the base end must have failed.

The missing bottle was not found onboard.

Ref: Australian Transport Safety Bureau website

Side Menu: Aviation safety investigations and reports

Search: July 2008 and QF30 is top of the list

All... My hypothetical structure of events is purely speculative, as most here are, until we get some real facts to work with.

Thank you. Blox in.

Last edited by Bloxin; 14th Mar 2014 at 03:34.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 23:15
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It's really quite amazing to see all this idle speculation and contemptuous remarks about the perceived inability of the local radar facilities to track this one (assumed) primary track with any degree of success.

Your memories are obviously too short to recall that the 9/11 Commission concluded that the worlds richest and most technologically advanced country was unable to track and intercept FOUR allegedly primary returns over the US mainland on that fateful occasion.

Can we stop this racist and arrogant discussion right now and, with a little humility, accept that such tracking capability is most unlikely to be operating/available in the affected region?!

And the idea that a T7 will impact the ocean and hide itself in the sand/silt like a stingray is indicative of the febrile imagination of some of our posters and leaves me in despair about our profession, if indeed these fantasists are Pro pilots??!!
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 23:17
  #2956 (permalink)  
 
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ACARS Data

Perhaps I've missed something,please forgive me if I have. However, my understanding of ACARS TX'd from MAS 370 is that there was none. So why are so many people postulating what can be inferred from the TX'd data?

My understanding:

Malaysian Airlines said there was no communication from the AC after contact was lost.

Boeing said that no data was received from the AC after contact was lost.

RR has said the no data was received after contact was lost.

US sources have said that the AC may have flown for 4 hours after contact was lost. They suggested that this was because satellites received "faint pings" from the AC's monitoring system after contact was lost. However, they also clearly stated that "no data was received from the AC."

So again, I ask; Am I missing something?
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 23:22
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Maybe the plane did experience technical difficulties, Turned around to return to KL and was shot down....maybe the technical problem meant it lost comms and it was unable to relay that it was a civilian plane with problems...not good pr for the Malaysians
There are a large number of loss of comms incidents all around the world everyday and there are procedures that are followed in these cases.
Sometimes this could escalate to aircraft being intercepted.

However, there are guidelines for being intercepted and it doesn't result in an aircraft being shot down with no special reason.. (unless someone is very trigger happy).. YouTube the video of a Vueling being escorted into Ams (I think) after being intercepted. Yes, he got escorted but he didn't get shot down as he complied with the instructions of the interceptors whether that be via radio or via lights / wing signals.

So sorry.. but that just doesn't make sense.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 23:23
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What benefit is it to the investigators to publish what the cargo was? - None, so they won't publish it.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 23:23
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data

"no data was received" does not mean there was no contact.... There could have been a "handshake", but no data received. Semantics...
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 23:23
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just tried google's gps tracker and got a response including coordinates>
I am not sure what this is showing, - just the last known position or something More?

I APRS object MH370 - show graphs
Map loading...
Source callsign: K7GPS-3
Comment: Initial last ctc of B-777. Where is it?
Location: 733.55' N 10342.63' E - locator OJ17UN54GE - show map - static map
Last position: 2014-03-13 23:00:11 UTC (11m19s ago)
Last path: K7GPS-3>APU25N via TCPIP*,qAC,T2QUEBEC
Positions stored: 1
Others sourced by K7GPS-3: Balloon IRLP-7844
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