Russian B737 Crash at Kazan.
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Reuters: Russian regulator to ground regional airline following deadly crash
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Russian news agency Interfax got ahold of a letter from the head of Rosaviatsiya to the Minister of Transportation, in which Rosaviatsiya officially recommends banning the importation of commercial aircraft older than 15 years.
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There's also a second bombshell in the letter. It proposes to require domestic airlines to register all their aircraft in Russia. (The requirement would apply immediately to all newly acquired aircraft. Existing aircraft are grandfathered till 2018.)
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There's also a second bombshell in the letter. It proposes to require domestic airlines to register all their aircraft in Russia. (The requirement would apply immediately to all newly acquired aircraft. Existing aircraft are grandfathered till 2018.)
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To anyone.
hamster3null wrote:
Now, I admit to sometimes being a bit thick so please forgive me for the following question:
What good would THAT decision do? Really? Isn't this a question of lack of experienced pilots rather than old aircraft? I'm bewildered. Please someone help me out of my fog...?
Russian news agency Interfax got ahold of a letter from the head of Rosaviatsiya to the Minister of Transportation, in which Rosaviatsiya officially recommends banning the importation of commercial aircraft older than 15 years.
(link removed by me)
There's also a second bombshell in the letter. It proposes to require domestic airlines to register all their aircraft in Russia. (The requirement would apply immediately to all newly acquired aircraft. Existing aircraft are grandfathered till 2018.)
(link removed by me)
There's also a second bombshell in the letter. It proposes to require domestic airlines to register all their aircraft in Russia. (The requirement would apply immediately to all newly acquired aircraft. Existing aircraft are grandfathered till 2018.)
What good would THAT decision do? Really? Isn't this a question of lack of experienced pilots rather than old aircraft? I'm bewildered. Please someone help me out of my fog...?
AOC Revoked last night, according some aviation sources....an expected action like in the RedWings accident some days later. Those Guys at MAK&Rosaviatsia are tough!
Air Transport World reports that Yamal Airlines has grounded its 737-400/-500 fleet, citing a "risk of spontaneous errors pertaining to the deviation or deflection of the elevator" and "after reviewing the flight information transcript of a Tatarstan Airlines Boeing 737-500 that crashed at Kazan airport in November".
Russia's Yamal Airlines temporarily grounds Boeing 737 fleet | Safety content from ATWOnline
Russia's Yamal Airlines temporarily grounds Boeing 737 fleet | Safety content from ATWOnline
One question...last night there was a FPL filled as TAK543/4, Kazan/IST/Kazan, and according Eurocontrol FPL database it operated with real ETA's and block times...could this be some sort of a data bug/ReptFPL, or the flight really existed with some exemption from the authorities?
It was announced that all ops were suspended since 31st January.
It was announced that all ops were suspended since 31st January.
My Russian is very limited... would someone please provide me a link to the investigation homepage?
I would like to read about their findings.
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So the MAK report is out at long last. It blames the pilots whose flying skills were poor- one a former navigator and the other an ex flight engineer, one apparently never took his basic training on a light airplane even though his papers said he did.
Trying to perform a go around, apparently assumed they were still on auto pilot which was no longer the case, got into a nose-up situation, overcorrected, got confused and flew the thing into the ground.
Trying to perform a go around, apparently assumed they were still on auto pilot which was no longer the case, got into a nose-up situation, overcorrected, got confused and flew the thing into the ground.
Crash: Tatarstan B735 at Kazan on Nov 17th 2013, crashed on go-around
- unqualified flight crew
- captain did not have any primary flight training
- systemic breach of work and rest regulations
- systemic lack of training
- lack of english proficiency (essential in flying a Boeing)
- lack of flight ops organisation at the airline
- lack of active assistance from ATC
- lack of.....
If you need to sober up after all those copious christmas dinners, click on the link provided.
- unqualified flight crew
- captain did not have any primary flight training
- systemic breach of work and rest regulations
- systemic lack of training
- lack of english proficiency (essential in flying a Boeing)
- lack of flight ops organisation at the airline
- lack of active assistance from ATC
- lack of.....
If you need to sober up after all those copious christmas dinners, click on the link provided.
The captain had just 275 hours total before his type rating on the 737. The F/O had even less with 150 hours TT. Not much real experience to fall back on especially as the F/O type rating training was very limited by normal standards.
The report mentioned the pilot (captain?) inadvertently disengaged the autopilot and continued flying manually on flight director. The 737 was well displaced from the centreline of the ILS and a large heading correction was made close in and while well above the glide slope. The flight director needles would have been all over the place like the proverbial dog's breakfast. Hurried and extreme elevator movements would cause an incompetent pilot to `chase` the FD needles which were probably at their extreme stops by now.
Flight Directors are an aid to instrument flying. They are not the be all and end all to instrument flying. That said, experience has shown many crews are FD addicted and become apprehensive without them as a crutch. The inevitable result sooner or later is a close call or a crash.
The report mentioned the pilot (captain?) inadvertently disengaged the autopilot and continued flying manually on flight director. The 737 was well displaced from the centreline of the ILS and a large heading correction was made close in and while well above the glide slope. The flight director needles would have been all over the place like the proverbial dog's breakfast. Hurried and extreme elevator movements would cause an incompetent pilot to `chase` the FD needles which were probably at their extreme stops by now.
Flight Directors are an aid to instrument flying. They are not the be all and end all to instrument flying. That said, experience has shown many crews are FD addicted and become apprehensive without them as a crutch. The inevitable result sooner or later is a close call or a crash.
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Experience before type rating is not an issue, many airlines have been doing this for decades. The problem is that airlines with shady training departments (if you don't crash on V1-cut, you are captain material) put people with such low overall experience in a left seat of a 60 ton jet.
I doubt 2500 hours of multi-pilot flying (assuming he got command shortly before the accident, which may not be true) is enough to be captain on an aircraft of this size and complexity.
I doubt 2500 hours of multi-pilot flying (assuming he got command shortly before the accident, which may not be true) is enough to be captain on an aircraft of this size and complexity.
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Centaurus;
Agree completely - (for the Airbus...the DC9/DC8 "directors" weren't sophisticated), I always thought that the most important use of FDs was, ironically, letting the PF know what the automation is actually "thinking", and I treated them as such...just a guide. FD's are best "looked through" to the other actual data on the PFD, for verification of what these things are commanding one to do.
In my opinion, other than conveying what the automation is wanting to do, FDs are for best for small corrections when hand-flying, and one ought to be able to hand-fly (with autothrust off), a raw-data ILS, otherwise one is unskilled at flying a transport aircraft.
Of course one needs to be sufficiently experienced to know how and when to "look through" these things and not to slavishly follow dumb commands from a high-speed idiot, (computer); otherwise they're just a crutch that weakens S.A. and thought.
Flight Directors are an aid to instrument flying. They are not the be all and end all to instrument flying. That said, experience has shown many crews are FD addicted and become apprehensive without them as a crutch. The inevitable result sooner or later is a close call or a crash.
In my opinion, other than conveying what the automation is wanting to do, FDs are for best for small corrections when hand-flying, and one ought to be able to hand-fly (with autothrust off), a raw-data ILS, otherwise one is unskilled at flying a transport aircraft.
Of course one needs to be sufficiently experienced to know how and when to "look through" these things and not to slavishly follow dumb commands from a high-speed idiot, (computer); otherwise they're just a crutch that weakens S.A. and thought.
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Does someone please have a link to the report if it is online?
AvHerald has a wealth of information but I would like the official report as well.
Edit: The link on avherald does not work for me...
AvHerald has a wealth of information but I would like the official report as well.
Edit: The link on avherald does not work for me...
Last edited by MrSnuggles; 27th Dec 2015 at 16:18. Reason: link not working
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I doubt 2500 hours of multi-pilot flying (assuming he got command shortly before the accident, which may not be true) is enough to be captain on an aircraft of this size and complexity.
2500 hours of monitoring an autopilot is cr@p.
Judging from how content the crew was to live with INS errors, they were just taking things as they came and were not being proactive in getting their aircraft ready for an approach.
Judging from the accident report, everyone at the airline had been taking things as they came and were not acting in a forward thinking mode.
That is how you get hurt in aviation.
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Experience before type rating is not an issue, many airlines have been doing this for decades
The current situation where line flying in jet transports is biased towards almost total automation - apart from the take off and short final approach to landing - and manual flying actively discouraged to a ridiculous degree, good quality handling experience is a most desirable aim for recruiters. And that doesn't mean in a simulator; but hands on in command instrument flying skills in IMC.