Russian B737 Crash at Kazan.
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DOVES, you are again making judgements without comprehending. The 73NG has ILS indicators on the PFD, so there is no need to have the ND on ILS mode, though you can if you want it, and as I rmember it, the Classic EFIS was the same. The Capt and FO have independent ILS displays on their PFDs, as well as it being displayed on the standby AI (if selected on, like I do, though removed from our SOP). Tell me why you think the ILS needs to be displayed 5 times to make an approach rather than just 3 times?
The point I was making is much as Skyjob's; that using the needles for the VORs during the STAR will give a better chance of recognising and dealing with map shift until you reach the ILS than blindly following the magenta line with 100% faith in the FMC's infallibility.
The point I was making is much as Skyjob's; that using the needles for the VORs during the STAR will give a better chance of recognising and dealing with map shift until you reach the ILS than blindly following the magenta line with 100% faith in the FMC's infallibility.
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strapped in?
Machaca asks, in post 376 if MAK determined whether the aircrew were strapped in their seats.
In 1989, taking part in a gliding competition in the Soviet Union (!) during the practice week we were given the opportunity to fly in one of the 4 seater Wilga towplanes, in order to get a look at the area to be tasked. I climbed into one of the rear seats, and began feeling around for my seat belt.....
couldn't find one. I tapped the pilot on his shoulder, managed to raise the question, and he replied "Nyet, seat belts for chickens!"
Fortunately the local glider I had rented for the 14 day competition, a Polish built Jantar III, included straps.
It is quite easy to depart controls in negative G...
In 1989, taking part in a gliding competition in the Soviet Union (!) during the practice week we were given the opportunity to fly in one of the 4 seater Wilga towplanes, in order to get a look at the area to be tasked. I climbed into one of the rear seats, and began feeling around for my seat belt.....
couldn't find one. I tapped the pilot on his shoulder, managed to raise the question, and he replied "Nyet, seat belts for chickens!"
Fortunately the local glider I had rented for the 14 day competition, a Polish built Jantar III, included straps.
It is quite easy to depart controls in negative G...
DOVE
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I'm very sorry to have been misunderstood.
Far be it from me the intention to judge and issue rulings on anyone.
I'll try to be clearer.
For ‘Raw data’ I've always intended the accurate reproduction of the classic "T" on the instrument panel, with Attitude Director Indicator selected on the Primary Flight Display and the Horizontal Situation Indicator on the Navigation Display.
Also because in those days NAV1 signals were transmitted to the CM1 ADI first, and then to the CM2 HSI.
But nowadays perhaps many things have changed and the old dear "T" has been forgotten.
Far be it from me the intention to judge and issue rulings on anyone.
I'll try to be clearer.
For ‘Raw data’ I've always intended the accurate reproduction of the classic "T" on the instrument panel, with Attitude Director Indicator selected on the Primary Flight Display and the Horizontal Situation Indicator on the Navigation Display.
Also because in those days NAV1 signals were transmitted to the CM1 ADI first, and then to the CM2 HSI.
But nowadays perhaps many things have changed and the old dear "T" has been forgotten.
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DOVES, 73 Classics were mostly EFIS, with a PFD with FD, ILS and also alt and speed as customer options above a CRT Nav display. The non-EFIS models had a conventional FD and EHSI in place of the screens, but the rest was the same. They had conventional round dial IAS/Mach, alitimeter and RDMI instruments and an IVSI (later with integrated TCAS display until that was integrated into the nav display). The VHF Nav 1 system supplied the Capt and Sby displays while the VHF Nav 2 system supplies the FO displays, unless selected otherwise on the overhead panel. That is the same on the NG. I don't know about the 200. So, they have pretty much the standard T configuration, bur the ILS is displayed in several locations within it.
Raw nav data can be displayed on EFIS aircraft in addition to FD and FMC data - it doesn't have to be only one or the other.
Raw nav data can be displayed on EFIS aircraft in addition to FD and FMC data - it doesn't have to be only one or the other.
All the classics I have flown (albeit for one airline some time ago) had no GPS, and there isn't any reason to suspect this a/c had, although it could have been retrofitted I guess.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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The discussion of GPS/map shift/mobile DME/monitoring of aids is all very interesting and useful, but is it not more relevant that they appear to have just screwed up the g/a for some reason? 'Hinting' that map shift was possibly 'contributory' is like saying they should not have taken off in the first place.
All the classics I have flown (albeit for one airline some time ago) had no GPS, and there isn't any reason to suspect this a/c had, although it could have been retrofitted I guess.
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Doves:
"For ‘Raw data’ I've always intended the accurate reproduction of the classic "T" on the instrument panel, with Attitude Director Indicator selected on the Primary Flight Display and the Horizontal Situation Indicator on the Navigation Display.
Also because in those days NAV1 signals were transmitted to the CM1 ADI first, and then to the CM2 HSI.
But nowadays perhaps many things have changed and the old dear "T" has been forgotten."
Your instrument scan can be as crappy on a PFD type instrument as on the traditional T display if you don't practice. Raw data means without the flight director command bars to tell you what to do. It appears that those who's instrument flying skills are 'underdeveloped' tend to not notice the attitude information as they blindly follow (fixate on) the command bars. Problem with them is when the command bars all of a sudden disappear. During a malfunction, they may be overwhelmed with the information in front of them (AF447), or fixate on a specific instrument (ASI) at the expense of the others or, in a period of apprehension (fear), revert to primitive instincts, such as confusing between a Western ADI and a Russian one.
"For ‘Raw data’ I've always intended the accurate reproduction of the classic "T" on the instrument panel, with Attitude Director Indicator selected on the Primary Flight Display and the Horizontal Situation Indicator on the Navigation Display.
Also because in those days NAV1 signals were transmitted to the CM1 ADI first, and then to the CM2 HSI.
But nowadays perhaps many things have changed and the old dear "T" has been forgotten."
Your instrument scan can be as crappy on a PFD type instrument as on the traditional T display if you don't practice. Raw data means without the flight director command bars to tell you what to do. It appears that those who's instrument flying skills are 'underdeveloped' tend to not notice the attitude information as they blindly follow (fixate on) the command bars. Problem with them is when the command bars all of a sudden disappear. During a malfunction, they may be overwhelmed with the information in front of them (AF447), or fixate on a specific instrument (ASI) at the expense of the others or, in a period of apprehension (fear), revert to primitive instincts, such as confusing between a Western ADI and a Russian one.
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Questions about pilot's license
Not sure whether this has been reported yet, but the following news article suggests that the training centre where the pilot received his license was operating illegally and conducting inadequate training.
Yahoo!
Yahoo!
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...training centre where the pilot received his license was operating illegally...
There are discussions if Rossaviacia search new airline for Transaero's lines. Reportedly one of them is UTair. Their general director Martirosov told on press conference:
"Предложение есть, мы его рассматриваем. Нужно сделать все, чтобы Татарстан не остался без авиационного сообщения. Силы у нас есть, возможности тоже"
The proposal was done, we think about it. It has to do everything for Tatarstan was not left without air service. We have both capability and force enough.
It looks that now is the time to sell TatarstanAir's shares. They want to lease several new A319 but a future of their AOC is unsure. I suppose that they will try to move their activity to the near company "AK Bars Aero"
Russia to Ground Tatarstan Airlines Following Boeing Crash | AVIATIONNEWS.EU
Rosaviacia informed that they will inspect another air companies in Tatarstan and also inspect the official persons responsible for their not objective evaluation of Tatarstan Air operation.
??????????
Last edited by Karel_x; 6th Dec 2013 at 19:06.
This would be really entertaining if 50 People hadn't died
It seems the plot thickens:
Russian investigators search state aviation agency, fear that some pilots got fake licenses
Russian investigators are searching the state aviation agency to see if some pilots may have fake licenses part of an investigation into a plane crash last month that killed all 50 people on board. Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin said in a statement Friday that investigators believe some pilots working for Russian airlines have received fake licenses
Russian investigators search state aviation agency, fear that some pilots got fake licenses
Russian investigators are searching the state aviation agency to see if some pilots may have fake licenses part of an investigation into a plane crash last month that killed all 50 people on board. Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin said in a statement Friday that investigators believe some pilots working for Russian airlines have received fake licenses
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It's not UTAir, it's the S7 training center where Tatarstan pilots were trained, according to a document released by Rosaviatsiya. But S7 is also one of the biggest and the best Russian airlines.
As for the fake licenses, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some around, but it doesn't have anything to do with the crashed plane and its crew. It could be just something irrelevant to the particular accident that was uncovered during the investigation.
As for the fake licenses, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some around, but it doesn't have anything to do with the crashed plane and its crew. It could be just something irrelevant to the particular accident that was uncovered during the investigation.
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irrelevant
As for the fake licenses, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some around, but it doesn't have anything to do with the crashed plane and its crew. It could be just something irrelevant to the particular accident that was uncovered during the investigation.
Where are you from again?
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I mean that these two pilot's licenses could be fine, but during investigation they might have found some problems with other pilot's licenses. I find it pretty hard to believe that these particular pilots got fake licenses at S7 training center. If it was so, it would be major news.
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I find it pretty hard to believe that these particular pilots got fake
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Rosaviacia state that it will check if all pilot licenses issued in the retraining program 2009 was legitimate (the both pilots were retrained 2010). They don't speak about fake licences.
They also start inspections at all Tatarstan carriers (AK Bars, Tulpar, KAPO) and start to investigate a person(s), responsible for state supervision.
??????????
Rosaviacia document, linked by Sergey, order some technical check of elevator system for all 737 .
1. To check Elevator Power Control Unit and Input Crank for pollution and/or foreign objects.
2. To check fluent movement of elevator (powered on) in accordance with recommendation AMM-27-31-00 (Insufficient elevator travel, Excessive force to move column with power on).
They also start inspections at all Tatarstan carriers (AK Bars, Tulpar, KAPO) and start to investigate a person(s), responsible for state supervision.
??????????
Rosaviacia document, linked by Sergey, order some technical check of elevator system for all 737 .
1. To check Elevator Power Control Unit and Input Crank for pollution and/or foreign objects.
2. To check fluent movement of elevator (powered on) in accordance with recommendation AMM-27-31-00 (Insufficient elevator travel, Excessive force to move column with power on).
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Not just here
From the link "tdracer" posted:
"To help ease the crew shortage, aviation officials set up centers to train navigators and flight engineers to serve as pilots of Western-made planes. Critics said that carriers often sought to cut corners on training in the run for profits."
This kind of thing is happening in every industry worldwide. Somewhere, we've all lost touch with the fact that safety and understanding of what's going on are the most important parts, with profits being secondary.
Making more profit does you no good if you're not around to spend it
"To help ease the crew shortage, aviation officials set up centers to train navigators and flight engineers to serve as pilots of Western-made planes. Critics said that carriers often sought to cut corners on training in the run for profits."
This kind of thing is happening in every industry worldwide. Somewhere, we've all lost touch with the fact that safety and understanding of what's going on are the most important parts, with profits being secondary.
Making more profit does you no good if you're not around to spend it
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2 SawMan: /+100!!!
About fake license - few Training Centers continued pilots training after Training Center License had been expired - it's a reason of "fake" licenses.
About fake license - few Training Centers continued pilots training after Training Center License had been expired - it's a reason of "fake" licenses.