Crash in Laos
In Asia there are a lot of nav (eg Philippines Laos) and even ATC systems (eg Jakarta) installed without the required flight testing to enable operational use. This airport has a lot of significant terrain near the base turn, and probable location effects due to the river, along with a vor that is located around 4 nm from the airport.
Can this really be the same plane? See photo in article.
The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - 3 Koreans Among Dead in Lao Airlines Crash
The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - 3 Koreans Among Dead in Lao Airlines Crash
Thanks, yes, this article here
Crash: Lao AT72 at Pakse on Oct 16th 2013, went into Mekong River on approach
Crash: Lao AT72 at Pakse on Oct 16th 2013, went into Mekong River on approach
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Originally Posted by md787
More like 16 years BOAC
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Do you have a reference for that statement? I know of two (due to pilot error on both occasions) but I'm interested to know of the other 4. And whilst you're at it, how many hull losses have there been for the ATR in that period of time, just to compare?
Aviation Safety Network > ASN Aviation Safety Database > ASN Aviation Safety Database results
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Pakse is a 'one way' airport. You land on 15 and take off from 33.
There is a line of high ground on the Laos side of the Mekong.
It is parallel to the Mekong but with limited aids compared to a normal western commercial airport. It has an NDB and VOR.As I understand it the latter is still on test.
Add to that the fact the weather was extremely challenging plus Pakse having no radar or ILS and the holes in the cheese line up nicely.
The final component will be the captain. Been there,done it and 30 years flying.
No first officer in his right mind would ever question his senior whatever the potential outcome in Asia.
In this case the aircraft was below minima in bad weather. Talking to friends at Pakse the story is that this guy was ex military and had been in to Pakse many times. Tower suggested he divert to alternate.It appears he was trying to creep in under the weather using GPS along the Mekong when he hit an island
Just read the One Two Go thread at Phuket.
There is a line of high ground on the Laos side of the Mekong.
It is parallel to the Mekong but with limited aids compared to a normal western commercial airport. It has an NDB and VOR.As I understand it the latter is still on test.
Add to that the fact the weather was extremely challenging plus Pakse having no radar or ILS and the holes in the cheese line up nicely.
The final component will be the captain. Been there,done it and 30 years flying.
No first officer in his right mind would ever question his senior whatever the potential outcome in Asia.
In this case the aircraft was below minima in bad weather. Talking to friends at Pakse the story is that this guy was ex military and had been in to Pakse many times. Tower suggested he divert to alternate.It appears he was trying to creep in under the weather using GPS along the Mekong when he hit an island
Just read the One Two Go thread at Phuket.
Last edited by Ye Olde Pilot; 20th Oct 2013 at 20:49.
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Tower suggested he divert to alternate.It appears he was trying to creep in under the weather using GPS along the Mekong when he hit an island
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It has an NDB and VOR.As I understand it the latter is still on test.
E) NEW PAKSE VOR/DME 115.0/CH97X ON TEST.
CREATED: 06 Nov 2002 05:50:00
SOURCE: VLVTYNYX
CREATED: 06 Nov 2002 05:50:00
SOURCE: VLVTYNYX
It appears he was trying to creep in under the weather using GPS along the Mekong when he hit an island
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This appears to be a fairly accurate appraisal of the accident.
Pakse’s landing systems below par
October 21, 2013 by Don Ross
Filed under Aviation, Laos PDR, News
BANGKOK, 21 October 2013: Difficult landing conditions made worse by tropical storm Nari are the most probable causes for a fatal crash of a Lao Airlines plane that plunged into the Mekong River on its approach to Pakse last Wednesday.
One of the worst of 16 tropical storms to sweep across the mainland Southeast Asia, during this year’s monsoon season, Nari hit central Vietnam and southern Laos with gales and torrential rain reducing visibility considerably around Pakse.
In an email response to questions from TTR Weekly a private aircraft captain who has flown to Pakse and has extensive knowledge of Mekong Region flying conditions said investigations would probably blame the accident ultimately on pilot error.
However, he noted there were other contributing factors one being the innate difficulty of landing at Pakse under normal flying conditions.
“Even in the best of conditions a pilot approaching Pakse has to fly in low to locate the runway visually,” he explained. “I have flown to the airport and it took about three minutes at low level to locate the runway in relatively good weather conditions.”
He noted that Pakse Airport has only “non-precision approach charts, there is no ILS” (Instrument landing system) at the airport.
“Since the runway runs parallel to the Mekong River, it would be easily possible in hazy and stormy weather to mistake the Mekong River for the runway,” he said.
“The urgent solution to make Pakse safer under all flying conditions would be for the Laotian Airport Authority to invest in new satellite based precision approach systems called LPV.”
Meanwhile in a separate report, AFP said that search teams have pulled six more bodies of air crash victims from the Mekong River in Laos, the national carrier said Sunday, taking the number of corpses recovered to 38.
In the nation’s worst known air disaster, all passengers and crew on the Lao Airlines turboprop ATR-72 died after the plane plunged into the river in bad weather on Wednesday near Pakse airport in Champasak province.
More than half of the 49 passengers and crew were foreigners from some 10 countries.
Search teams from neighbouring Thailand have been scouring the river for bodies along with experts from the airline and the French-Italian aircraft maker.
But they have been hampered by strong currents which have swept some bodies several kilometres away from the crash site.
“Now the total found bodies are 38,” Sengpraseuth Mathouchan, the airline’s vice-president, said in a statement Sunday, after six more bodies were found overnight.
“Lao forensic teams and experts from Thailand are continuing to identify the bodies,” he said, adding “Our thoughts and prayers are with the families affected by this terrible tragedy.”
On Saturday the airline said it had identified 14 of the 32 bodies hauled from the river by that point.
Two Australian passengers, the Cambodian captain and several members of the crew were among those named so far.
The airline has revised the passenger list to show that a Canadian citizen was also on board when the plane went down.
According to an updated passenger list released late Saturday by the airline, there were 16 Laotians, seven French travellers, six Australians, five Thais, three South Koreans, two Vietnamese, and one national each from the United States, Canada, Malaysia, China and Taiwan.
There were also five crew, including the Cambodian captain.
Volunteers have fought strong currents in the painstaking search for bodies from the plane, most of which has sunk and is believed to have broken up.
In some cases, rescue teams have plucked the dead from turbulent waters many miles from the crash site.
Founded in 1976, Lao Airlines serves domestic airports and destinations in China, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam.
Previously the country’s worst air disaster was in 1954 when 47 people died in an Air Vietnam crash near Pakse, the organisation said.
© 1994-2013 Agence France-Presse
October 21, 2013 by Don Ross
Filed under Aviation, Laos PDR, News
BANGKOK, 21 October 2013: Difficult landing conditions made worse by tropical storm Nari are the most probable causes for a fatal crash of a Lao Airlines plane that plunged into the Mekong River on its approach to Pakse last Wednesday.
One of the worst of 16 tropical storms to sweep across the mainland Southeast Asia, during this year’s monsoon season, Nari hit central Vietnam and southern Laos with gales and torrential rain reducing visibility considerably around Pakse.
In an email response to questions from TTR Weekly a private aircraft captain who has flown to Pakse and has extensive knowledge of Mekong Region flying conditions said investigations would probably blame the accident ultimately on pilot error.
However, he noted there were other contributing factors one being the innate difficulty of landing at Pakse under normal flying conditions.
“Even in the best of conditions a pilot approaching Pakse has to fly in low to locate the runway visually,” he explained. “I have flown to the airport and it took about three minutes at low level to locate the runway in relatively good weather conditions.”
He noted that Pakse Airport has only “non-precision approach charts, there is no ILS” (Instrument landing system) at the airport.
“Since the runway runs parallel to the Mekong River, it would be easily possible in hazy and stormy weather to mistake the Mekong River for the runway,” he said.
“The urgent solution to make Pakse safer under all flying conditions would be for the Laotian Airport Authority to invest in new satellite based precision approach systems called LPV.”
Meanwhile in a separate report, AFP said that search teams have pulled six more bodies of air crash victims from the Mekong River in Laos, the national carrier said Sunday, taking the number of corpses recovered to 38.
In the nation’s worst known air disaster, all passengers and crew on the Lao Airlines turboprop ATR-72 died after the plane plunged into the river in bad weather on Wednesday near Pakse airport in Champasak province.
More than half of the 49 passengers and crew were foreigners from some 10 countries.
Search teams from neighbouring Thailand have been scouring the river for bodies along with experts from the airline and the French-Italian aircraft maker.
But they have been hampered by strong currents which have swept some bodies several kilometres away from the crash site.
“Now the total found bodies are 38,” Sengpraseuth Mathouchan, the airline’s vice-president, said in a statement Sunday, after six more bodies were found overnight.
“Lao forensic teams and experts from Thailand are continuing to identify the bodies,” he said, adding “Our thoughts and prayers are with the families affected by this terrible tragedy.”
On Saturday the airline said it had identified 14 of the 32 bodies hauled from the river by that point.
Two Australian passengers, the Cambodian captain and several members of the crew were among those named so far.
The airline has revised the passenger list to show that a Canadian citizen was also on board when the plane went down.
According to an updated passenger list released late Saturday by the airline, there were 16 Laotians, seven French travellers, six Australians, five Thais, three South Koreans, two Vietnamese, and one national each from the United States, Canada, Malaysia, China and Taiwan.
There were also five crew, including the Cambodian captain.
Volunteers have fought strong currents in the painstaking search for bodies from the plane, most of which has sunk and is believed to have broken up.
In some cases, rescue teams have plucked the dead from turbulent waters many miles from the crash site.
Founded in 1976, Lao Airlines serves domestic airports and destinations in China, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam.
Previously the country’s worst air disaster was in 1954 when 47 people died in an Air Vietnam crash near Pakse, the organisation said.
© 1994-2013 Agence France-Presse
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Part of fuselage recovered. Relatives to get approx $7,500 per victim in compensation - Bangkok Post article
No black box yet - Lao Airlines Press Release
Question: why after recovering the fuselage would they paint out the airline name and number???
No black box yet - Lao Airlines Press Release
Question: why after recovering the fuselage would they paint out the airline name and number???
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Jeppesen Chart is wrong
Did any of you Gentlemen notice that the Jeppesen Chart is wrong?
The "DME vs Altitude" strip is actually showing Heights instead of Altitudes which gives you an error of something over 300ft.
The MDA is 990 but on the "DME vs Altitude" strip at 1.9DME (MDA) it says 645ft.
The "DME vs Altitude" strip is actually showing Heights instead of Altitudes which gives you an error of something over 300ft.
The MDA is 990 but on the "DME vs Altitude" strip at 1.9DME (MDA) it says 645ft.
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Nicely spotted. The only explanation I have is that the final part of the procedure is to be flown with QFE altimeter setting. But I have never heard of that. The term "altitude" would be wrong in any case.
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Black box located
Black box located.
26 bodies identified, Lao aircraft lifted from Mekong River | MCOT.net | MCOT.net
Sorry....I don't know how to make the link...Mods? can you help?
26 bodies identified, Lao aircraft lifted from Mekong River | MCOT.net | MCOT.net
Sorry....I don't know how to make the link...Mods? can you help?
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"erbuscap" what on earth are you talking about?
Can you quote the Jepp introduction that says altitudes will always be displayed AGL?
Looks like a major
by Jepp. Anyone seen a recent chart? That one was Dec 2010.
Can you quote the Jepp introduction that says altitudes will always be displayed AGL?Looks like a major
by Jepp. Anyone seen a recent chart? That one was Dec 2010.
About now Jeppesen would be in damage control via their lawyers. They have departed from convention on that chart, with the profile obviously and wrongly (to those of us sitting in the comfort of our armchairs) referenced to QFE, though no statement to that effect is anywhere to be seen.
Even so, flown accurately with the correct QNH set the aircraft should have been approximately 300ft above ground at the MAP.
Even so, flown accurately with the correct QNH set the aircraft should have been approximately 300ft above ground at the MAP.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 24th Oct 2013 at 11:13.