terrorist dry runs?
You have missed the point.......if you are trusted to fly the aircraft you should be trusted with the equipment neded to do the preflight inspection on your aircraft.
however security determines that my Swiss Army Knife,
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So A & C, are you saying that a Swiss army knife is an excepted "tool" to do a walk around.
Last edited by grounded27; 2nd Nov 2013 at 22:05.
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Let me repeat again:
Why is it acceptable for Geneva Airport to offer Swiss Army knives for sale AFTER security to all an sundry, yet a VETTED Individual - namely ME - with a valid Pilot's licence, who is escorted to his aircraft and kept separate from any other passengers, is NOT allowed to take such an item with him?
It is ridiculous, plain and simple......
@grounded: I keep my knife in my pilot's bag and usually I would leave this bag in the plane when travelling; however I was advised by the refueller at Bratislava NOT to leave anything of value in the plane because parking on the apron wasn't considered a secure area!!!! I don't know how many of you have jumped through hoops due to a lost licence, but I decided to take the advice of the refueller and took all my belongings, including pilots bag with licence and logbooks (and Swiss Army Knife) with me.....
Why is it acceptable for Geneva Airport to offer Swiss Army knives for sale AFTER security to all an sundry, yet a VETTED Individual - namely ME - with a valid Pilot's licence, who is escorted to his aircraft and kept separate from any other passengers, is NOT allowed to take such an item with him?
It is ridiculous, plain and simple......
@grounded: I keep my knife in my pilot's bag and usually I would leave this bag in the plane when travelling; however I was advised by the refueller at Bratislava NOT to leave anything of value in the plane because parking on the apron wasn't considered a secure area!!!! I don't know how many of you have jumped through hoops due to a lost licence, but I decided to take the advice of the refueller and took all my belongings, including pilots bag with licence and logbooks (and Swiss Army Knife) with me.....
Last edited by Steve6443; 2nd Nov 2013 at 23:57.
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Simple answer Steve, it is hard to fight stupid as governing factors are the majority vote. Logic seems something lost thus my reasoning.I certainly would not leave it visible.
Last edited by grounded27; 3rd Nov 2013 at 04:00.
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MATELO & Grounded27
There is no doubt that a Swiss army Knife or a leatherman tool are just that tools.
As such depending on the type of aircraft they may well be needed to do a standard pre flight check. I wonder just how happy the passengers are about the fact that security have taken away (or think they have !) the means for me to drop the fuel sticks to find out how much fuel there is on the aircraft !
It is said you should never argue with idiots and drunks.......... I would add security to that list.
As such depending on the type of aircraft they may well be needed to do a standard pre flight check. I wonder just how happy the passengers are about the fact that security have taken away (or think they have !) the means for me to drop the fuel sticks to find out how much fuel there is on the aircraft !
It is said you should never argue with idiots and drunks.......... I would add security to that list.
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If I miss the point, why would a security agent change his way of check people going from land to airside? It's exactly that point what makes it a secure area...btw, a knife is not a tool for any aircraft... Buy a different tool in your local diy without a knife and you will not have this hassle any more.
I stand by my previous point, the security agent cannot just believe you'll not pass on the knife to another person with other ideas than opening oil caps...
There's no reason to discuss it, they're not there to think, just execute their work.
I stand by my previous point, the security agent cannot just believe you'll not pass on the knife to another person with other ideas than opening oil caps...
There's no reason to discuss it, they're not there to think, just execute their work.
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It's exactly that point what makes it a secure area...
.... go figure.......
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a knife is not a tool for any aircraft
they're not there to think, just execute their work.
Last edited by grounded27; 3rd Nov 2013 at 17:09.
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Ok, rephrase it to: a knife is not a tool for any pilot.
Of course mechanics should have a certain array of tools to do their work properly, although all this tools should be in a hangar beyond security already. Or are you telling me all mechanics should from now on be able to pass security with knives carried on themselves as personal items?
As a passenger, knives are allowed in your luggage which goes in the hold. I would imagine tools for a maintenance outfit would have to pass security in a similar way, although I'm not sure about that.
Btw, I'm passing security myself everyday, if they find something in my luggage which is not allowed to pass, of course I would try to reason with them, but from my experience they're not the smartest of the class and therefore the discussion will always be difficult. Early start of the day can sometimes be ruined by an arrogant security agent, it just happens all to often.
Of course mechanics should have a certain array of tools to do their work properly, although all this tools should be in a hangar beyond security already. Or are you telling me all mechanics should from now on be able to pass security with knives carried on themselves as personal items?
As a passenger, knives are allowed in your luggage which goes in the hold. I would imagine tools for a maintenance outfit would have to pass security in a similar way, although I'm not sure about that.
Btw, I'm passing security myself everyday, if they find something in my luggage which is not allowed to pass, of course I would try to reason with them, but from my experience they're not the smartest of the class and therefore the discussion will always be difficult. Early start of the day can sometimes be ruined by an arrogant security agent, it just happens all to often.
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Knives on planes
BTW the TSA were proposing allowing knives back on planes with blades less than 2 inches ... And other things like baseball bats...
They decided not to after the "noknivesonplanes " and FAA union folks got all uppity ... I guess the AR-15 assault rifle thru security must be okay after LAX ??
The point is that prescribed systems have flaws , but so do outcomes based ones... There is no simple fix , but tools of the trade are generally accepted items... So a screwdriver would work , but a knife , no . ( oh and by the way the weapon of choice for thugs is often a screwdriver as you can buy really long ones that will go straight thru someone... Much easier than a knife with a long blade in fact )
But its all academic as perhaps half the worlds widebody airliners can be breached via the flight deck door carrying nothing thru security at all. Just ask Boeing about the electronics hatch that is in the cabin area and unlocked.. But I have banged away at this before so getting tired of hearing myself as the "swiss army knife police" reckon they have it sorted.
They decided not to after the "noknivesonplanes " and FAA union folks got all uppity ... I guess the AR-15 assault rifle thru security must be okay after LAX ??
The point is that prescribed systems have flaws , but so do outcomes based ones... There is no simple fix , but tools of the trade are generally accepted items... So a screwdriver would work , but a knife , no . ( oh and by the way the weapon of choice for thugs is often a screwdriver as you can buy really long ones that will go straight thru someone... Much easier than a knife with a long blade in fact )
But its all academic as perhaps half the worlds widebody airliners can be breached via the flight deck door carrying nothing thru security at all. Just ask Boeing about the electronics hatch that is in the cabin area and unlocked.. But I have banged away at this before so getting tired of hearing myself as the "swiss army knife police" reckon they have it sorted.
Ok, rephrase it to: a knife is not a tool for any pilot.
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Or are you telling me all mechanics should from now on be able to pass security with knives carried on themselves as personal items?
They trust a pilot with an aircraft, here in the USA pilots can gain a air marshal card to carry a firearm. A little to much. Same goes with the AMT/LAME, all aboard place their lives in our hands daily yet we are treated like criminals as we go through security. Funny thing is we are expected to perform the duties of aircraft security by challenging any person that does not hold a badge. A real organized threat I would be putting my life at risk.
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Even more ridiculous than a multi tool, I had left a yoghurt from the crew food bag the day before at the bottom of my bag without even thinking. Next day passing through security, bag search, metal detector and shoes off, all because of the offending yoghurt. Frustrating indeed, just a mindless regulation to mindlessly abide by.
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Idiots, drunks & security
When flying GA now I always leave the multi tool in the aircraft working on the theory that if it is part of the aircraft safety equipment than it is just like the fire axe on an airliner........ You could not get one past security but you must have one on the aircraft.
