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terrorist dry runs?

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terrorist dry runs?

Old 2nd Nov 2013, 22:04
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 1,342
So A & C, are you saying that a Swiss army knife is an excepted "tool" to do a walk around.
My Leatherman brand multi tool has one razor sharp strait, one just as lethal serrated and one saw blade on it. As an AMT (LAME) in the USA it is generally accepted and I would clearly understand why it would be needed in the GA world by a pilot. Every major airport here has some sort of procedure to get the tool on the field, going back and forth through security becomes an issue. I understand in other parts of the world an additional "tool badge" is used but if possible we try to keep knives on the field. I would suggest a GA pilot leave a swiss army knife or multi tool in their aircraft if feasible.

Last edited by grounded27; 2nd Nov 2013 at 22:05.
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Old 2nd Nov 2013, 23:53
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Unna, Germany
Posts: 416
Let me repeat again:

Why is it acceptable for Geneva Airport to offer Swiss Army knives for sale AFTER security to all an sundry, yet a VETTED Individual - namely ME - with a valid Pilot's licence, who is escorted to his aircraft and kept separate from any other passengers, is NOT allowed to take such an item with him?

It is ridiculous, plain and simple......

@grounded: I keep my knife in my pilot's bag and usually I would leave this bag in the plane when travelling; however I was advised by the refueller at Bratislava NOT to leave anything of value in the plane because parking on the apron wasn't considered a secure area!!!! I don't know how many of you have jumped through hoops due to a lost licence, but I decided to take the advice of the refueller and took all my belongings, including pilots bag with licence and logbooks (and Swiss Army Knife) with me.....

Last edited by Steve6443; 2nd Nov 2013 at 23:57.
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 03:53
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Simple answer Steve, it is hard to fight stupid as governing factors are the majority vote. Logic seems something lost thus my reasoning.I certainly would not leave it visible.

Last edited by grounded27; 3rd Nov 2013 at 04:00.
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 12:16
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
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MATELO & Grounded27

There is no doubt that a Swiss army Knife or a leatherman tool are just that tools.

As such depending on the type of aircraft they may well be needed to do a standard pre flight check. I wonder just how happy the passengers are about the fact that security have taken away (or think they have !) the means for me to drop the fuel sticks to find out how much fuel there is on the aircraft !

It is said you should never argue with idiots and drunks.......... I would add security to that list.
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 13:50
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Belgique
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If I miss the point, why would a security agent change his way of check people going from land to airside? It's exactly that point what makes it a secure area...btw, a knife is not a tool for any aircraft... Buy a different tool in your local diy without a knife and you will not have this hassle any more.

I stand by my previous point, the security agent cannot just believe you'll not pass on the knife to another person with other ideas than opening oil caps...

There's no reason to discuss it, they're not there to think, just execute their work.
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 16:48
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
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It's exactly that point what makes it a secure area...
The ONLY reason I took my pilot's bag with my knife in it with me to the hotel that night is because the Refueller stated that I would be best advised not to leave anything in the plane as it's NOT a secure area.....

.... go figure.......
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Old 3rd Nov 2013, 17:08
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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a knife is not a tool for any aircraft
Just how do you think a lot of the rubberized or plastic materials (seals, trim etc) are fit? How do I get that FCC out of that box wrapped up like it is Christmas on steroids.

they're not there to think, just execute their work.
Yeah, have fun telling them that.

Last edited by grounded27; 3rd Nov 2013 at 17:09.
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 07:27
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Belgique
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Ok, rephrase it to: a knife is not a tool for any pilot.
Of course mechanics should have a certain array of tools to do their work properly, although all this tools should be in a hangar beyond security already. Or are you telling me all mechanics should from now on be able to pass security with knives carried on themselves as personal items?
As a passenger, knives are allowed in your luggage which goes in the hold. I would imagine tools for a maintenance outfit would have to pass security in a similar way, although I'm not sure about that.

Btw, I'm passing security myself everyday, if they find something in my luggage which is not allowed to pass, of course I would try to reason with them, but from my experience they're not the smartest of the class and therefore the discussion will always be difficult. Early start of the day can sometimes be ruined by an arrogant security agent, it just happens all to often.
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 07:53
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: AUSTRALIA - CHINA STHN
Age: 54
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Knives on planes

BTW the TSA were proposing allowing knives back on planes with blades less than 2 inches ... And other things like baseball bats...

They decided not to after the "noknivesonplanes " and FAA union folks got all uppity ... I guess the AR-15 assault rifle thru security must be okay after LAX ??

The point is that prescribed systems have flaws , but so do outcomes based ones... There is no simple fix , but tools of the trade are generally accepted items... So a screwdriver would work , but a knife , no . ( oh and by the way the weapon of choice for thugs is often a screwdriver as you can buy really long ones that will go straight thru someone... Much easier than a knife with a long blade in fact )

But its all academic as perhaps half the worlds widebody airliners can be breached via the flight deck door carrying nothing thru security at all. Just ask Boeing about the electronics hatch that is in the cabin area and unlocked.. But I have banged away at this before so getting tired of hearing myself as the "swiss army knife police" reckon they have it sorted.
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Old 4th Nov 2013, 20:03
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
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Ok, rephrase it to: a knife is not a tool for any pilot.
We were talking GA here, and I absolutely dispute that statement. There are lots of things a GA pilot does during preflight for which a (multiplex) knife is a most useful tool.
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Old 5th Nov 2013, 18:12
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Or are you telling me all mechanics should from now on be able to pass security with knives carried on themselves as personal items?
Generally they are a part of a multifunction tool and permitted through a process to gain access airside (not just in a hangar environment). To avoid hassle once they are airside (past the gate agent) we try to keep them there. I agree that a GA pilot should have a knife as part of a simple tool set as they perform regular servicing of their aircraft or say if a piece of interior material came loose and was a nuisance.

They trust a pilot with an aircraft, here in the USA pilots can gain a air marshal card to carry a firearm. A little to much. Same goes with the AMT/LAME, all aboard place their lives in our hands daily yet we are treated like criminals as we go through security. Funny thing is we are expected to perform the duties of aircraft security by challenging any person that does not hold a badge. A real organized threat I would be putting my life at risk.
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Old 5th Nov 2013, 20:02
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 119
Even more ridiculous than a multi tool, I had left a yoghurt from the crew food bag the day before at the bottom of my bag without even thinking. Next day passing through security, bag search, metal detector and shoes off, all because of the offending yoghurt. Frustrating indeed, just a mindless regulation to mindlessly abide by.
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Old 6th Nov 2013, 09:26
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
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Idiots, drunks & security

When flying GA now I always leave the multi tool in the aircraft working on the theory that if it is part of the aircraft safety equipment than it is just like the fire axe on an airliner........ You could not get one past security but you must have one on the aircraft.
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Old 7th Nov 2013, 10:52
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Midlands, England
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Trust the TSA, they are on our side ;

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